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Help with band shots..
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Ok so i take pics at a good few gigs.. but ive never done a shoot for a band before..
So the band has asked me to take a few pics of them. I asked what would be involved and whats the use of them. There would be about 2 diff locations involved. some editing but nothing major. pics to be used for cds posters etc. What do i charge?.. maybe 5 fully finished pics for thier use. 2hours of shooting max..3/4hours editing…??..
all replies greatly appriciated..
I’d charge them €150 if it was me for 5 hours work. But I’m not a pro depending on it for a living.
djbowlz wrote:
What do i charge?
Hi Peter,
Ahh the big question: What do I charge ?Well the answer is really down to them… and how much they believe the images are worth to them.
Remember, it’s not about ‘you’, it’s about ‘them’ wanting these images.
The reason they are asking you to provide them with images, is so as they can use them.
And so the more they feel they can use them, the more they will be willing to pay you.Simple – but important for you to understand.
You produce & provide images for people to use.
You own the copyright of any images you produce.You should therefore charge for the use of the images you produce, based on their usage requirements.
Thanks Ballyman.. id love to charge that but for a new band in todays harsh climate its prob too much.. when i work for bars i usually do an hour or two at 50euro an hour cause they can afford it.
Ashley, thanks for your reply..
Does leaflets and posters get put under the media of print.. and when you they want to use pics on a website and a myspace is that also just put under the “internet” heading?.. territory would be ireland. length of use would be under a year.
Should i make a contract?.. get them to sign it?.. i suppose it would be good practise. hes a buddy so i was thinking 50euro.. as its my first shoot uno.
also regards copyrights.. when i give them the pics(probably 5) do i still own the rights or do i sell the rights to them?.. uno?..
thanks again for replys lads..
djbowlz wrote:
Does leaflets and posters get put under the media of print.. and when you they want to use pics on a website and a myspace is that also just put under the “internet” heading?.. territory would be ireland. length of use would be under a year.
Media Use is broken down into the following sections:-
Ambient – includes: garage forecourt, airport and rail station screens and all public areas where advertising is screened.
Billboards / Posters – includes: 96/48/16/12/4 sheet, superlites, escalator panels, bus sides & panels, taxis wraps & seats, bus backs, tube, underground.
Brochure / Catalogue.
Direct Mail – includes: door drop leaflets & postcards.
Inserts / Prints.
Marketing Aids – includes: umbrellas, ashtrays, beer mats, exhibition panels, trolley panels.
Magazine / Ad – includes: advertorial features, ads & PR.
Magazine / Editorial.
Newspaper – includes: advertorial features, ads & PR.
Packaging.
Point of sale.
Television / Cinema – includes: interactive TV, Video, mobiles, CD ads.
Worldwide web – includes: email ads.djbowlz wrote:
Should i make a contract?.. get them to sign it?
Yes, if it’s a job.
However, if all you are doing is providing them with images to use, then you are simply billing them for is the use of the images.
So your invoice in this case, would be basically saying: If you want to use these images, this is the fee – and this is the terms & conditions related to that fee. Your invoice would therefore act as your ‘pre-usage agreement’ document, which they need to agree to and pay for, before they use the images.djbowlz wrote:
..do i still own the rights or do i sell the rights to them?
You own the Rights (copyright) to any images you produce… especially if you are the one financing the shoot up front.
Which will probably be about 99.9% of the time.So you produce the images first.
Then all you are doing is providing them with images for them to use.So you sell them the Rights to use your images and you charge them a fee for that – known as a ‘Licence to use’ fee.
It’s why you should always state what the Media use, Period of use and Territory is… when quoting a fee.
If you don’t state these 3 things, then they may and probably will assume they have paid you for ‘unlimited use’ of the images… to do with as they please, for as long as they want.Hi,
some great info here from Ashley fairplay.
i am in much the same situation as you i have been shooting
gigs for the last few months. in my experiance all these new bands have no
money and want to try get some shots for mutual benift in that you get credited
for the shots etc and if they are used for there albums etc then i would expect to be
paid. talking contracts and usage to alot of these guys can sometimes scare them
off and look for someone else that is trying to start out on the scene, that will do them
for nothing no questions asked.
id say prob best to charge for you time on the day
and discuss usage when they see they shots etc.
just my 2cents anyways. good luck with them.Rodred wrote:
id say prob best to charge for you time on the day
and discuss usage when they see they shots etc.Good negotiating skills are critical to the success of any independent photographer, yet this talent is frequently not what comes naturally to us. Listen to some tips and insights on this difficult issue: If you sell yourself cheap, you will never get out of that hole by Barbara Bordnick and the ASMP.
djbowlz wrote:
Thanks Ballyman.. id love to charge that but for a new band in todays harsh climate its prob too much.. when i work for bars i usually do an hour or two at 50euro an hour cause they can afford it.
Ashley, thanks for your reply..
Does leaflets and posters get put under the media of print.. and when you they want to use pics on a website and a myspace is that also just put under the “internet” heading?.. territory would be ireland. length of use would be under a year.
Should i make a contract?.. get them to sign it?.. i suppose it would be good practise. hes a buddy so i was thinking 50euro.. as its my first shoot uno.
also regards copyrights.. when i give them the pics(probably 5) do i still own the rights or do i sell the rights to them?.. uno?..
thanks again for replys lads..
150 Is to much …..do them for nothing then
I’ve done a couple of these, and your kidding yourself if your charging less than 250.
there is a bit of prep work (not much, lets be honest) but can be a LOT of time in post work. How big is the band? the more members the harder this is to get them all looking good, or at least at the camera at the same time.
Add up how many hours from when you walk out the door until you finish processing and have the CD burnt or whatever you plan to do. then multiply that by what they pay in macdonalds these days. There’s your starting point – do you think your work (having supplied all the camera gear and a few years honing your craft) is worth more than your time flipping burgers?
if you think so, then charge more than the price you’ve just worked out. Ashley has explained it correctly, I’m just trying to give some perspective.
Just remember – the next gig you’ll get will be a reference from this band, and they will know what you charge. it’s hard to bring those rates up.
Merv.
Rodred wrote:
Hi,
some great info here from Ashley fairplay.
i am in much the same situation as you i have been shooting
gigs for the last few months. in my experiance all these new bands have no
money and want to try get some shots for mutual benift in that you get credited
for the shots etc and if they are used for there albums etc then i would expect to be
paid. talking contracts and usage to alot of these guys can sometimes scare them
off and look for someone else that is trying to start out on the scene, that will do them
for nothing no questions asked.
id say prob best to charge for you time on the day
and discuss usage when they see they shots etc.
just my 2cents anyways. good luck with them.if a band wants you to do something in exchange for “credit” then maybe you should ask the band if they are willing to do a gig for free in your local – just for extra practice (of course any fee you get for the band playing – you can keep)
No-one wants to work for free – if you do photographs for someone you EXPECT that your work is credited, If the band want you do work on the cheap use the contract to ensure that you will get paid in the long term – tie them into a contract and agree with them that you are the only person allowed to photograph them for promotional use for the next 5-10years, basically gain exclusivity of the band and/or put it in the contract that you receive 10% of their first 10 gigs – so you get paid a realistic amount of money – albeit over a longer time.
I did a shoot for a group some years back and they were friends of mine. They wanted a shot for their debut album cover. I agreed to do the shot for a percentage of the album sales instead of money up front. As it worked out, I earned a lot more than I was going to charge them for the shot and they also thought it was good value.
Yes i agree with the charging proper by the book prices but in this day and age you must take into account other factors, temporary factors relating to the present, i am amature.. the lead guy is a friend, ther gettin 100euro a gig between three of them. to charge 250 for 5 pics so they can make a poster is a bit harsh. im not as strong as most of you, i wouldnt feel good charging that much to a new band struggling.. i work for clubs and pubs from time to time and i have no problem charging them proper fees because they can afford it. at the same time i dont want to make a name for being a handy cheap photographer..
And that’s why this is the business forum.
Those images get used on posters and promo material that will net the band money. The better the photo, the more likely random strangers are going to be inclined to see a band they’ve never heard.
Let’s say a band is playing upstairs in Whelans. First they need to pay the venue, then posters, then someone on the door etc. So before the band play a single note, they have to pay around €300. 60 people at €5, before they break even. Good poster that helps bring in people, say 200 people.. that’s €1000. A gig is more likely to be €10 though, so even if half balk, the band still make money.
Should the photographer get paid? Bloody right they should. Especially as the poster will get used again and again, and the photo used for press and PR in national magazines and papers.
If you don’t want to charge, that’s fine by me, just don’t assume that’s how everyone feels. If you undervalue you work, there’s plenty of people out there that won’t and will make the most of the free ride.
Some great tips and ways to get yourself included in the money, if there’s any coming down the line?
I work in the music biz and do my fair share of favours. People are happy to ask advice and borrow equipment until you say what your fee is. Give them a choice, if they don’t like your price there are plenty of other ways to skin a cat.
Consider, are they going to look good, have they got a “look”, are they hiring a make-up artist and lighting? Have they arranged good weather for the outdoor shoot? How easy are they going to make your job and if not why should you not get paid. There are many stories of bands wanting a particular musician but not being able to use him cos the other drummer had a van or singer had a PA. You have the camera, and know how to use it, they need you
tie them into a contract and agree with them that you are the only person allowed to photograph them for promotional use for the next 5-10years
I like this idea, if they get signed by a record company next year, will the record company use you or the friend of the guy who started the record company??? I don’t believe your mate will have your best interest at heart if he has to go to the wall with A+R execs and lawyers over clawback, merch and distro rights
There are hundreds of bands out there who would love to have nice photo’s and artwork, and will bite your hand off if it comes this cheap. Don’t sell yourself short
Sean
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