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Aid boat to Gaza
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So will the Rachel Corrie make it to Gaza or will it be taken over by the Israeli army?
it’ll be boarded, I’m sure the Israeli’s aren’t shitting themselves because biffo threatened serious consequences if it was interfered with. then we can have another few days of everyone whinging and moaning about how Jews…sorry Israeli’s are nasty people and should have sanctions placed upon their terrible land, because you know…no one has tried to starve a couple of million Jews to death for a while so why not try again now. people need to realize that the government of Israel couldn’t care less about what the international community thinks, not because they’re heartless evil bastards but because they’re doing what they feel is necessary to protect their people.
There’s no avoiding political commentary regarding this matter.
Where would South Africa or Northern Ireland be if the rest of the world stood back and allowed countries to do what they felt was necessary to protect their people?
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” [Edmund Burke, English philosopher]
Yep, but Afrikaners and British people hadn’t been subject to centuries of pogroms and the holocaust of the second world war nor did they have their neighboring countries constantly threatening and sometimes trying to wipe them from the map so their arguments where invalid on those grounds, I’m a pinko liberal at heart but when it comes to Israel I feel the need to stick up for them as they receive so much hate from everyone else, besides it is the only democratic country in the region and allows asylum seekers from it’s neighboring Arab countries refuge within it’s borders because they would be persecuted in their homelands, mainly gay, christian or political activists.
Ooh. Politics. I love a bit of politics.
But there’s not really any politcs in this. A ship (with or without
aid, with or without weapons) is floating in international waters and the
Israelis storm it and shoot nine people dead. The surprise is that they
didn’t use forged Irish passports while they went about it.Maybe all the people on board should have been given forged Israeli passports. :D
PeteTheBloke wrote:
Ooh. Politics. I love a bit of politics.
But there’s not really any politcs in this. A ship (with or without
aid, with or without weapons) is floating in international waters and the
Israelis storm it and shoot nine people dead. The surprise is that they
didn’t use forged Irish passports while they went about it.Its amazing what they get away with.
Did anyone hear the interview with the Isreali embassy person during the week on Today F’M’s Last Word program? Unbelievable :roll:
It may be sailing not floating in international waters but it was bound for gaza and those who where killed provoked and attacked the commandos who boarded, thee IHH the turkish group responsible for that ship has links to Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade, turkish newspapers carried reports of three of those killed saying they where prepared for martyrdom before the ship sailed. Israel has the right to defend itself. As for the forged passports the Irish government has yet to release any evidence of Israeli involvment in the forging of Irish passports (they most likely did) but at the end of the day attacks on Israeli citezens from the gaza strip have practically seized since the blockade began and I can’t see them lifting it any time soon.
It is illegal, regardless of their reason to board the ships at night. I don’t really think that anyone can fault those on a ship reacting to people dropping out of helicopters etc in the darkness of night. I don’t think that the people on the boats were unprovoked. The Israelis should have applied a bit of common sense and does this legally if nothing else.
To date, I’ve not heard of anything illegal being found on any of the boats.To be pro-humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza is not anti-Israel or anti-Jewish. I think that most reasonable people are anti any violence
shown from those in Gaza to those in Israel. The international’s communities issue with Israel is that they react disproportionately to that violence. I don’t think that the majority are wrong to hold this opinion.The history of conflict in that part of the world is long and complex with no side correct or having the moral high ground. I’m not sure that
anyone here in qualified to present an educated assessment of it, myself included.Mark wrote:
It is illegal, regardless of their reason to board the ships at night. I don’t really think that anyone can fault those on a ship reacting to people dropping out of helicopters etc in the darkness of night.
To date, I’ve not heard of anything illegal being found on any of the boats.
To be pro-humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza is not anti-Israel or anti-Jewish.
These points are so valid. The UN announced they want to conduct an independant investigation into last weeks attack but Isreal are against this. I wonder why.
But it’s not illegal, the military forces of a sovereign nation state are allowed under maritime law to stop and search vessels they believe can harm their civilian or military infrastructure, Israel has only to show just cause. As for people dropping out of helicopters unannounced at night, the Israeli navy by the admission of the activists made repeated announcements of it’s intention so it wasn’t a surprise to those on board, illegality on the high seas does not include things such as chairs, metal bars, galley knives and iron bars but still these are thing the Israeli commandos where attacked with and one commando who was thrown over the side of the upper deck to the lower deck. As for the argument that to be pro humanitarian aid to Gaza is not anti Jewish(antisemitic) or anti Israel no one here has made that charge. I just find it hard to understand how everyone and their dog is happy to condemn Israel but I don’t see anyone in this or any other thread condemning the democratically elected rulers of Gaza for bombing Israeli targets, met and had very heated argument with local sinn fein councilor on the very subject a 2 nights ago, a man who is happy to condemn Israeli actions but who refuses to condemn the IRA for it’s wrongs.As for the idea that no one here is qualified to give an educated assessment of the situation is to under value the experiences of those of us who have direct links to and of the history of the region. Finally on the the disproportionate use of force, anyone with any military understanding will tell you no such thing exists except the heads and hearts of those who have never faced the realities of a battle field or war situation, it is incumbent upon the defense forces of any nation to bring to force whatever strategies and force they have that will protect those for whom they have sworn to defend.
Dermot,
I think we’ll leave this conversation as it is as its pointless. This could go on forever.
You have your opinion and others will have theirs.This discussion has reminded me why political discussions are not allowed here :)
Started off as a simple question and went off into a political threadAs one who has had direct contact “on the battlefield” with the IDF, I can state that they do not give a sh1te about anyone who gets in their way regardlesss of what their intentions are. That is not to say that ALL Israelis are evil. A large number of Israeli citizens are totally against the treatment of the people of Gazza.
The people of Gazza do not ALL support Hamas either. These are mainly civillians with no military backgrounds just as all the people in Northern Ireland do not support the IRA.
Hamas, like any other so called terrorist organisation, are a product of the oppression (in their eyes) of the civilian population where a minority decide to fight back for their freedom, lands etc.
In Lebanon in 1982, the IDF placed Sabra and Shatila refugee camps under seige after they invaded the country, due to rockets being fired into Israel. They destroyed everything in their path. They surrounded these camps & allowed their allies (South Lebanese Army) to enter the camps & butcher innocent civillians, men, women & children by the thousands, while they looked on.
What happened on the flotilla is an act of piracy, kidnap & murder & those responsible should be made accountable. International waters mean that anyone is entitled to sail through them unmolested. Military forces are only entitled to board vessels in their own waters. I wonder how Israel would feel if the international community decided to set up a total blockade on their country, preventing food, medicines etc from getting through. I’m sure they would harp on about being victims again.
They need to stop persecuting their neighbours & allow them some freedom if they want to take the power away from Hamas.I’m happy for you to close this thread Mark as I didn’t mean to cause hassle for you. I just feel its sad that the aid cannot reach the peope in need for whatever reasons.
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