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Poor wedding photographs
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Hi,
I am just looking for a bit of advise. My nextdoor neighbours daughter got married in December and unfortunately I already had a wedding booked in when they asked me to do it. Anyways they went ahead with a photographer they found who charged them €650 for the full day photography till first dance and all photographs on disc.
They showed me the photographs last night and are very very upset over the quality of the photographs. When I went through the photographs some of them are out of focus and badly composed. No shots of the exchanging of the rings and generally just poor quality photographs. The photographer they booked calls himself a professional wedding photographer.
Now the big problem is they never signed any contract they said they were on such a buzz about planning there wedding that they never even thought about contract. My question is because they never signed a contract is there anything they can do to try and recoup some of there money. Over the next few weeks im going to try work on there photographs and improve them as much i can but its just such a terrible thing to have to see a young couple go through this. I dont understand why there is not more controll and regulation in this industry.
Hopefully someone can give me some advise.
Thanks
Donal.
Have they discussed their issues with the photographer and if so did they get a response?
The fact that they paid money and the photographer did the work is a contract. They have recourse but ……… and its a big but ……… they may be granted a judgement in court but if the photographer fails to pay then they must keep going back to the court and this costs money. They will need expert opinions also on the quality and these cost money also. I suppose what I’m saying is they have to spend a lot before they can collect …… if they ever collect ! (I have been witness to 3 cases in recent years and none have (to date) got any money …. Judgements Yes, money No)
Just one other thing …….. and its a small piece of advice for your own good …….. have absolutely nothing to do with editing or trying to improve the photographs. It could land you in serious trouble. Even though they have a disk they still do not own copyright.
I agree with you on the control issue and have in my time done a submission to the IPPA and met with the Minister at the time but nothing happened to date.
They were happy with the quality of samples on the photographers website now the samples are small selection after looking at the website myself i would not have advised to book this person because its not a great sample of wedding photographs. They contacted the photographer after receiving the photos and explained they were not happy and he said he would get back in touch with them but they have not heard anything and all emails and calls go unanswered.
Its just so hard watching someone you know go thru this when it should be the happiest time of there lives. It is unblievable to think that the industry is still not regulated. Like anyone at the moment can pretty much grab a camera and call themselves a pro photographer the sooner its regulated the better.
I have been looking for regulation for years now and the reality is that it is not going to happen because the powers that be AND the industry itself or the people in the industry do not have the balls to make it happen. It’s not in their interests for some strange reason.
In the case of this couple the price of €650 for a full days shoot on a disk should have set off alarm bells straight away. It simply can’t be done if one has to have the proper equipment (x 2 sets), insurance, be revenue compliant and run a business. A good service is much more than giving a cheap price.
One of the first business courses I ever attended was given by a South of England Business lecturer, Peter Court. His opening sentence was “The sour taste of poor quality remains long after the sweet scent of cheap prices has vanished forever”.
Unfortunately when some people see a great price they think there getting a great deal they dont look into the finer details like. Its such a shame hopefully one day the industry will be regulated properly there is just too many cowboys in this industry and certain sites in dublin where so called pro photographers offering photographic service for little or no money.
any chance of getting the name of this guy?? the sister got a cowboy like that too for hers, price sounds familiar now she seems happy enough with the results but when i seen the album she got i nearly ripped it up, i slated 99% of whats in it and even the layout sucked,
she has the disc of everything too and wants me to edit them the best i can but im very reluctant to even take the disc off her to look at it and see is there anything better on it.GCP wrote:
I have been looking for regulation for years now and the reality is that it is not going to happen because the powers that be AND the industry itself or the people in the industry do not have the balls to make it happen. It’s not in their interests for some strange reason.
In the case of this couple the price of €650 for a full days shoot on a disk should have set off alarm bells straight away. It simply can’t be done if one has to have the proper equipment (x 2 sets), insurance, be revenue compliant and run a business. A good service is much more than giving a cheap price.
One of the first business courses I ever attended was given by a South of England Business lecturer, Peter Court. His opening sentence was “The sour taste of poor quality remains long after the sweet scent of cheap prices has vanished forever”.
Hi Gerry,
Can you explain just how you want the business regulated. I’m curious to read what you have to say on it.
I’m an amatuer photographer who takes shots purely as a hobby & I am no threat to the photographic
community or any Bride or Groom who’s wedding day will be remembered for the poor shots taken.
I accept that there are many people who, in their own minds are good photographers which
unfortunately is not the case. Where or how did you start on the road to becoming a pro’ photographer.
Surely you did not wait to become professional before accepting payment or offers of jobs?John.
I would also like to know what proposals have been put forward for consideration – I’m not a wedding photographer but have been working professionally for over 10years.
John – there is a fine line between accepting payment for work as a photographer “claiming” to be a professional and actually being a professional and working for yourself, one simple suggestion for “new” photographers is that they serve an apprenticeship (minimum 2-3years of studying under a professional photographer) – this would curb the flow of people who are purchasing DSLR’s and setting themselves up as “professional” photographers…of course there are loads of enthusiastic amateurs out there who know all and can produce better work than many modern professionals – I myself am still learning new techniques and lighting ideas to bring to my own photography – despite over 10yrs experience, I have also moved into underwater photography and have been learning techniques etc for that…..so if someone wishes to become a professional photographer they should (in my opinion) not be able to simply buy an expensive camera and start working as a professional.
i just wana say something on price…..
my photographer for my wedding cost less than the above price, and is a well known professional too, so i cant see where the price really comes into it., if someone recommended them or knew them and got them to do it as a favor then the price is always going to be lower than the going rate.
as for calling yourself a professional….. there are people who have just bought a camera and call themselves professionals, then there are people who have been shooting for 10+ years and live off the payments they get from photography who still dont put a “professional” title on themselves….
either way, if the couple above were happy with the samples they seen and went ahead then they should have gotten the results they were sampled, regardless of price or title.
John17 wrote:
GCP wrote:
I have been looking for regulation for years now and the reality is that it is not going to happen because the powers that be AND the industry itself or the people in the industry do not have the balls to make it happen. It’s not in their interests for some strange reason.
In the case of this couple the price of €650 for a full days shoot on a disk should have set off alarm bells straight away. It simply can’t be done if one has to have the proper equipment (x 2 sets), insurance, be revenue compliant and run a business. A good service is much more than giving a cheap price.
One of the first business courses I ever attended was given by a South of England Business lecturer, Peter Court. His opening sentence was “The sour taste of poor quality remains long after the sweet scent of cheap prices has vanished forever”.
Hi Gerry,
Can you explain just how you want the business regulated. I’m curious to read what you have to say on it.
I’m an amatuer photographer who takes shots purely as a hobby & I am no threat to the photographic
community or any Bride or Groom who’s wedding day will be remembered for the poor shots taken.
I accept that there are many people who, in their own minds are good photographers which
unfortunately is not the case. Where or how did you start on the road to becoming a pro’ photographer.
Surely you did not wait to become professional before accepting payment or offers of jobs?John.
A professional photographer is one who makes a living from photography ……… nothing more or less than that. The title does not make one better or greater than many amateur photographers that I have seen ….. it only specifies that their profession is photography. Many are under the illusion that all professional photographers are trained, competent experts. Not so Im afraid!
We all do courses and refresher courses on photography, on software, on business, on marketing, on interpersonal skills, etc. etc on an ongoing basis but that is it for many.It was 4 years ago since the submission was made so I would have to find the file. If and when I do I will post the text of it here but its quiet long. The main object was to make a level playing field for all operators. The main ideas were;
(1) A proscribed level of competency in photography would have to be attained and demonstrated.
(2) Completion of a Business course would be required.
(3) A garda clearance profile to be obtained.
(4) Obtain a Business registration certificate.
(5) Have public liability and professional indemnity insurance (to a certain defined level)
(6) VAT registered, Tax compliant and CO2 certificate obtained.Personally my first introduction to photography was in 1972 when I got a grounding from my then Geography teacher, Matt Quinn. I bought an instamatic 35mm and had this until 1977 and took mainly slides of scenery. I then bought a 35mm SLR and took the 3 levels of photography and developing courses in Galway Regional Technical College (Part-Time at night)that were on offer at the time. Through this I got to work for lecturer who also owned a Photography Business in Galway. In 1984 I bought a Bronica ETRS kit and continued working for the same guy until 1989. A wedding in those days was done on 3 x 120 rolls of film (15 on) and each shot had to count ! ……. go on to a 4th. roll and it was at your own cost.
By 1989, after feeling I had done my apprenticeship, and, as I had built my own studio I went solo on my own. The previous year I also began a degree in photography & media studies through open university and completed it in 1994. In 1996 I began to do some part-time teaching for Galway VEC and used to teach Photography and Computers to transition year students on Monday afternoons in Tuam and on Wednesday afternoons in Ballinasloe. In 1999 I was wrote the N.C.V.A. Photography Training Module for the VEC. I began a masters degree in 1998 and finally (after a lot of stopping and starting) completed it in 2004. I gave up the teaching work in 2001 as the business got too busy. Since then I have been just involved in my own business here with a little one to one consultancy in my quieter times
That is my history for what its worth …………. a lot still to learn.
Gerry, I commend you on your input to this forum.
Your input has substance, its enlightening and I have found it of assistance at all times.
Thank you,
John
You’ve done the hard graft Gerry & well done to you but what I’m asking you & I
suppose all professional photographers is the people that ye are giving out about,
were you that person trying to make his name or carve a niche in the photography
world a few years ago?What are your views on people currently looking for reviews on their websites?
I will admit that some are quite good, although that can’t be said about them all!
I think that digital photography is a lot easier to master than film with so many
books & tutorials on it but you still need to have an eye for it. (No pun intended)I personally don’t agree with your ideas for a level playing field! Photography is
an art & it shouldn’t be sterilised through the ideas that you have suggested.Best of luck to you in your business & photography.
John.
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