- This topic is empty.
Considering Photography as a career change
-
Hi all,
This is my first posting on this forum.
I have been an avid photographer for a number of years now and would see photogaphy as my ideal career.
To start with I’d like any advise on offer relating to good accredited photography courses (ideally via distance learning), opportunities in photography and any other relevant information to get me started. I have seen a diploma course run by Kilroys College in Dublin which looks ok as well as various courses run by The Gallery of Photography in Temple Bar?
I also had the idea of contacting some local professional photographers to assist them on weddings etc. in an effort to gain some practical experience…but just wondering how realistic it is to do something like that?
Anyway, I think you get the jist of my general queries.
Looking forward to some responses!Best Regards
T :?:I think you will find it very difficult to find a wedding photographer to take you on as an assistant.
I was lucky that I had a few friends that were getting married that had enough faith in me to let me shoot their weddings and it started from there. I was able to build up a decent portfolio to show prospective clients.
Another option would be to post an ad on weddingsonline.ie and irishweddings.ie in the forums offering your services as a second shooter looking to gain experience.Best of luck with it.
Hi there,
I took the plunge earlier this year and there have been highs & lows.
Drop me a PM if you wish and I can get back to you with some of the issues etc. I have encountered.Rgds
Kevin
I’d guess T isn’t the only one on the site contemplating this type of move.
I know I’m getting horribly sick of my current work, and really enjoy the photography I’m doing at weekends.My own area of interest in photography is sports work. But like T I’m interested in any recommendations anyone can make for photography courses… in my case online/distance learning or in Ennis/Limerick.
But the course can’t include anything on Film/developing .. I have no intentiona of getting into that side at all. And I have no intention on wasting money on learning topics that are if no use.
Using the manual settings on the camera – excellent.. using flashes etc great .. But film developing or anything film-specific isn’t really of interest for me. Also anything around basic photo editing is not really interesting, I’ve done a couple of short courses on it, plus anyone even vaguely computer literate gets the basic stuff pretty easily.lahinch_lass wrote:
But the course can’t include anything on Film/developing .. I have no intentiona of getting into that side at all. And I have no intention on wasting money on learning topics that are if no use.
Using the manual settings on the camera – excellent.. using flashes etc great .. But film developing or anything film-specific isn’t really of interest for me. Also anything around basic photo editing is not really interesting, I’ve done a couple of short courses on it, plus anyone even vaguely computer literate gets the basic stuff pretty easily.I’m afraid I have to disagree with you there lahinch_lass. Having a grasp of the basics of film and developing is not only educational and interesting, but could be useful too and believe it or not, it’s fun too. I come from a film based background and I wouldn’t have missed it for the world. Granted, it may not be of much use to you in the short term, but I wouldn’t just dismiss it like that – it’s something you might come back to doing later on.
As for the bit about anyone being vaguely computer literate getting the basic stuff pretty easily, again, I beg to differ. I consider myself reasonably computer literate, having worked for many years in the IT industry (including a number of years at Microsoft). However, I still found learning Photoshop almost as challenging as learning AutoCAD! Having the film background helped me understand a lot of the concepts being used in Photoshop, but it’s such an amazingly versatile and powerful application that it’s actually quite easy to muck up. For example, I suspect that a lot of people who are computer literate, but just starting out in digital imaging, will convert a colour image to monochrome be using the quick and dirty method of desaturating the image. That’s far from the best way of doing it and there are lot’s of other ways so much better than this – the trick is knowing which was is best for a given image and that can only come with a solid grounding in the fundamentals of photography and the software being used.
Having a grasp of the basics of film and developing is not only educational and interesting, but could be useful too
Thorsten, I’m sure you hold these ideas quite close to your heart, and the fact that you have gone through the film/developing bit is probably very helpful to you, but the simple fact is that a knowledge of film is NOT a requirement to become a professional or even a good amateur. The only reason film remains on various syllabus around the country is because colleges put on the modules they know how to deliver, not necessarily what’s best for the student.
Lahinch_lass is correct I believe. I too am stunned at how many courses still ram film down your throat. There’s even a course out there trying to teach you the benefits of APS cameras! If you have the time, and the inclination, then by all means learn all you need about film, but it is not a pre-requisite for becoming a professional.
digitalbeginner wrote:
…the simple fact is that a knowledge of film is NOT a requirement to become a professional or even a good amateur…
Sorry if I came across with the view that it was an essential requirement to becoming a professional or even a good amateur – that wasn’t my intention. I was simply trying to suggest that it’s probably not the best idea to dismiss film photography completley and consign it to history. I haven’t shot film in over a year and digital is definitely the future. But the fact that I have used film and am familiar with it’s characteristics and how these differ from digital, means that I can make a decision on the best medium for a particular job based on my experience of having used both film and digital. As an example, for anyone wishing to shoot infrared images, film is really the only viable option. You cannot replicate the process in Photoshop no matter how hard you try. If you do want to do it digitally, you need to use a camera with the AA filter removed and this creates other problems.
The day will come when everyone is shooting digital. When that day comes, I’m sure there will be wedding photographers and others that specialise in shooting with film, simply because it offers something different and will set them apart from the “pack”.
tmcgrath wrote:
Hi all,
This is my first posting on this forum.
T :?:Welcome to the forum T !
First of all, I’m posting this reply to the OP as a photographer. I’ve no other agendas, I dont own a shop, I don’t train people and I genuinely don’t care if people do film or digital. People that know me, will know I do my own thing. I dislike film v digital debates and as this forum looks so promising, I really hope that they are few and far between. They tend to be very divisive.
The world of professional photography [and amateur photography I suppose] is full of many diverse people with many diverse views.
I’ve noticed that theres a very defitinte group of people who take to professional photography as a means just to make money. These people are happy to buy a couple of cameras/lenses and lash out average prints. They make the quickest route from A to B, then pickup the cheque. “All neck and no eye” as a guru once said to me.
Theres also a very definite group of people that have a great love of all aspects of photography, they explore every avenue and become accomplished in them all before specialising in a few. They think they are living the dream, practicing their art-form and being paid for it. [Off course theres several other types, but for the sake of brevity I’ll leave it there]
I would suggest to the OP, that you reflect on what your goals are. Your way forward really depends on these goals and the timescale you have in mind.
In my opinion ANY photographic training you do will benefit you in the long term. The Gallery of Photography do some great courses. I have done some years ago.
Not sure about the Kilroys one.
If you need help with photoshop, theres lots of books/DVDs and online tutorials. I’d rather spend money on a better lens than a class-room course.
Have you considered joining Drogheda Camera Club? Its one of the very best in the country.
http://www.droghedaphotographicclub.ieIf you get to the top of their club I’d wholeheartedly say dump your day job.
Whatever path you choose, good luck.
Fintan
Thorsten,
The FujiS3 IR conversion gives you a usable IR film equivalent. The filter pack on the sensor is replaced to filter for IR wavelegths. The pictures produced are stunning. With respect to learning about film and the characteristics of it can have some uses, in that it broadens the knowledge of the EM Spectrum, dynamic range/contrast in a scene, zone system etc. This can be learnt without reference to film. With digital cameras, I find it much easier to teach and therefore the students to learn about the differing colour of light, exposures, fill-flash etc etc. The immediate feedback the digital camera can offer seems to excite new photographers as they can progress more quickly. I’m all for that. Saying all of that, there is an amazing feeling of shooting and developing a roll of film, anticipation! Black and white film, in particular, has a unique quality about it that I can’t replicate with digital, or an I just romaticising the glow of grain! :)
Si
Below Efka50 film (single layer emulsion 1940s style film)
I’m about to start the C&G 6923 Level 2 course which takes 2 years and after that there’s a Level 3, 1 year course. I’ve heard only good reports about the course. Up here in Belfast it’s only ?90 a year. At then end of the course you also get a LRPS which is worth some cudos. I understand the same course can be done by distance learning via Open Learning, OCS and a couple of others, but they cost about ?400. See link below. Theres another course run by Amatuer Photographer mag, which gives a Diploma (not sure if it’s accredited or not), whch seems to be very good too. Check out the students forum on the AP website below.
An other option if wanting to change career would be to getting accredited to SWPP or RPS, which involves you submitting a panel of 10 images. Check the SWPP and RPS structures on there websites. I have seriously considered this route. And having LRSP or LSWPP after your name on a business card would impress any would be client.
http://www.uk-open-learning.com/CartV3/Details.asp?ProductID=558[/url]http://www.amateurphotographer.com[url][/url]
Fintan wrote:
Have you considered joining Drogheda Camera Club? Its one of the very best in the country.
http://www.droghedaphotographicclub.ieSorry to butt in uninvited, but should that be http://www.droghedaphotographicclub.com ?
Si, I’d heard of the “revised” Fuji S3 but haven’t seen any results from it. I must admit, I’ve often thought about getting my 10D modified, because I’m a big fan of IR photography and don’t really do as much as I would like.
Like Fintan, I’m not into the film -v- digital debate either, although that may not have come across inmy earlier post. So, just to clarify once again, I was only trying to get across the point that I felt that simply dismissing film completely without giving it a second thought, may not be the best course of action. Most of the more in-depth courses will generally cover some element of the history of photography. While that may appear to be a complete waste of time, I think it’s there for a purpose and helps to give one a good all ’round understanding of photography. No doubt, we’ll see the whole area of film based photography feature in the history of photography as syllabi are brought up to date.
In future, I’ll avoid making any references of any type to film -v- digital :wink: I invariably end up making myself mis-understood, so it’s probably best for me to keep quite as I have no desire to get into devisive debates on this aspect of photography. I like, and will continue to use both film and digital.
Brian, I’ve heard good reports of the C&G course myself. It can be quite intensive but seems to be worth doing. What’s more, it’s a recognised and respected qualification (perhaps not as much now as it once used to be), so from that point of view alone it warrants further investigation.
Fintan – the points you make about the different photographers and establishing a goal are well made. I’m sure all of us have looked at some professional photographers’ work in disbelief while thinking “I could have done a lot better than that!” Yet these guys are making a living at it, and some quite successfully too. Believe it or not, I’ve had one or two photographic colleagues approach me in the years gone by suggesting that I shouldn’t be so quality conscious about my work as the ordinary “Joe Soap” wouldn’t notice the difference anyway, so why bother putting in the effort!
I still think success in photography as a business is as much (if not more so) down to good business acumen and people skills more than good photography. Good photography will help you make the most of the business but if you lack the necessary business skills, the best photography in the world isn’t going to help you make a success of your business.
Professional carier of photographer is nice with all positive and negative sides.
I was there.
If you don’t need monthly fixed income and can be under pressure, do it.
About the knowledge of film photography. You should know it. You never know when some custumer will want this type of service.Hi everyone,
Thanks very much for the enthusiastic & constructive responses.
I’m more & more encouraged about getting into photography as a career given the useful advise at hand on this forum!I started with a film SLR and now utilise both film & digital. I think its fair to say its all down to personal preference and circumstances which you use. But for my 2cents worth, I would rather appreciate the concepts of film photography than not. I want to do it the organic way too I suppose. Theres so much to learn in film that it can’t be underestimated in my view.
I have emailed Drogheda Photo Club but judging from the website & bounced emails I’m not sure its still up & running…but thanks for that Fintan & Davenewt.
Brian C, I wasn’t sure what the C&G 6923 Level 2 course actually was which you were referring to but I’ve discoovered I already found this same course at Griffith College Dublin for anyone in the area that may be interested. See link below:
http://www.gcd.ie/index.jsp?1nID=108&2nID=124&3nID=124&nID=221&aID=268
The fulltime course is 1 year comprising of 6923 & 6924. The parttime course is 2 years comprising of 6922 & 6923. The main difference between the two I’m not so sure about, but I am definitely going to consider doing the PT course asap.I’ve also been checking out all the various societies that photographers become affiliated with of which you mentioned some…I will not get ahead of myself yet do and will do some courses before trying to become LSWPP or LRSP!
Finally, a quick question…what distinguishes a Professional Photographer from an Amateur? Is it simply some letters after a name?
Photography to me is all about perception & its the perception of others as well as your own that your striving to entice.Thanks everyone again for the advise.
Cheers!
Ttmcgrath wrote:
Finally, a quick question…what distinguishes a Professional Photographer from an Amateur? Is it simply some letters after a name?
Strictly speaking it’s money! A professional photographer does photography as a profession – they earn their living from it. An amateur photographer does it as a hobby – it’s a means of creative expression, or something to do with their spare time, or any other reason except money. But I’m guessing you know that already and your question is deeper than that!
It’s certainly not about letters after a name, although there’s no denying that such letters can and do elevate your status amongst your peers (and customers). Amateur photographers are just as capable of having letters after their names as professional photographers are. For example, LIPF, LRPS or EFIAP are all distinctions any amateur can earn if they put in the effort. But so too can professionals, if they feel so inclined. Other distinctions, such as LSWPP or LIPPA are distinctions awarded by professional photographer associations (in this instance the Society of Wedding and Portrait Photographers and the Irish Professional Photographers Association respectively).
Professional photographers are expected to come up with strong images on a daily basis. Amateurs are not under the same pressure to produce. This means that often amateurs wil produce better images than professional photographers as they are not under the same constraints that a professional is. If an amateur doesn’t get it right first time, they can go back and try again, as often as necessary, to get the perfect image. A professional photographer doesn’t have that luxury and has to come up with the perfect image first time areound.
There are many amateur photographers that produce far better images than professional photographers. On the other hand there are quite a few professional photographers that produce some amazing work, far superior to an amateur’s work. A professional photographer has unimited resources, within reason, at least compared to an amateur, who, unless they have a very well paying job or other source of funds, must generally work withing very tight budgetary constraints. I’m not suggesting that professional photographers splash money around, but if their job requires them to use a specific piece of equipment it’s easier for them to justify it than it is for an amateur to do so.
A professional photographer also has certain responsibilities to thier clients whereas an amateur has no such responsibilities, other than perhaps moral and ethical responsibilities when shooting a portrait for example (i.e., they should treat their subject in a sensitive manner and not portray them in a negative light).
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
