- This topic is empty.
Bored of landscapes, think I’ll become a sports snapper…
-
constantine wrote:
By the by, one thing I have noticed pretty much straight away is the total lack of civility between photographers at sporting events.
I mean, all I’m doing is taking pictures for free, hoping to destroy their reputation so I may take their position and their post within their respective newspapers, but like, they can at least be friendly.
Oh well… :twisted: :twisted:
Constantine,
I have found 99% of all sports photographers to be very civil. I have got to know quite a number of the staff from the two main Sports Photography Agencies in Ireland and found them all to be very friendly. You will never ‘destroy their reputations’ because you simply cannot compete with the agencies. Remember as soon as the match is over, they probably have already sent the images and probably sold them aswell. They have full time staff selling images, chasing payments and licensing. You should also drop the word ‘snapper’ aswell as that only devalues the work that you do. I don’t think you would call a portrait or landscape photographer a ‘snapper’. Whatever you do dont give your photographs away for free even under the pretense of ‘getting your foot in the door’ as you are only ripping yourself off.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
Conorlahinch_lass wrote:
Actually there are some restrictions on taking pic’s of kids …
for editorial (newspapers or sports magazines) use you’ll generally be ok .. anything beyond that is risky.#1 selling pics of kids without written permission of their parent/guardian is a major no-no
#2 Image rights always apply when a person is identifable.
#3 public place – exactly how many sports take place in a public place?
Most sports grounds are owned by some authority or other, whether it be a club or council. Unless you are standing in a public place taking the photos you do need the venue owners/managers permission to take photos for any commercial usage.This is an area that is getting stricter all the time. Each of the national governing bodies is supposed to have policies in this area. I know what the policy is for surfing, but I don’t know what (if any) policy any of the other NGBs have in place.
Personally the whole area of sports photography has some massive legal implications, and I know I want to get some training on the legalities involved before I actually do move onto trying to make a living from it.
Just to come back on a few points here.
#1 – You are not breaking any laws, so are well within your right to take such photos and sell them, as long as you don’t misrepresent the sport/person.
#2 – Image rights? Please explain this, under Irish law.
#3 – Many sports grounds are visible and accessable as public parks, walkways and are visible from public paths. These would include pitches such as in the Phoenix Park. Many pitches are owned by public authorities, but you do not require permission to take photos on them.Many sports authorities have guidelines on photography of minors, but again, there is no law in Ireland that prohibits photography of minors.
ctwomey wrote:
I have found 99% of all sports photographers to be very civil. I have got to know quite a number of the staff from the two main Sports Photography Agencies in Ireland and found them all to be very friendly. You will never ‘destroy their reputations’ because you simply cannot compete with the agencies. Remember as soon as the match is over, they probably have already sent the images and probably sold them aswell. They have full time staff selling images, chasing payments and licensing.
I have to agree. I’ve shot many sports events, with those sports agency photographer photographers beside me. I’ve never once experienced any hostility at all.
Some are very chatty, while others are much less chatty. I think it’s more to do with normal personal interactions than anything to do with photography.
These guys can be very competitive, but that is purely because they have very tight deadlines. They have to have images out within minutes of the action just starting.
I would also agree totally about not giving away your images for free. Even charging something is better than nothing. If your images are good enough to use, then they are good enough to be paid for. Most papers have no problem paying for quality work, and you will also build up a professional reputation.
A number of smaller publications use freelance photographers to cover events, and will also take submissions on spec.
Just my view.
From working in a cut throat sports environment before here’s my 2 cents – sports photographers are a great bunch of guys, usually chatty with each other. From doing grand prix, there’s a core bunch of 30 odd guys/girls who do every round, then 10 or so locals who do the the local round (australia, bahrain etc)…very little interaction with those guys (unless they’re well known) simply because they dont know the unwritten rules as such…tend to be muppets in some cases. All chattiness & niceties between all go out the window when there’s a crucial shot to get (podium, driver group shot etc) then it’s every photographer for himself. But then back in the photographers room after, it’s all good again….till the next shot causes mayhem…nothing like the championship deciding race & opening race to cause a good old scrum!
ctwomey wrote:
Constantine,
I have found 99% of all sports photographers to be very civil. I have got to know quite a number of the staff from the two main Sports Photography Agencies in Ireland and found them all to be very friendly. You will never ‘destroy their reputations’ because you simply cannot compete with the agencies. Remember as soon as the match is over, they probably have already sent the images and probably sold them aswell. They have full time staff selling images, chasing payments and licensing. You should also drop the word ‘snapper’ aswell as that only devalues the work that you do. I don’t think you would call a portrait or landscape photographer a ‘snapper’. Whatever you do dont give your photographs away for free even under the pretense of ‘getting your foot in the door’ as you are only ripping yourself off.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
ConorWell, in my experience, when I say ‘Hello, how are you?” and I get a look of contempt, I consider that uncivil behaviour, and I have found that to be the case in most all of my encounters with these agency photographers. Maybe I’ve just been unlucky, or maybe I’m being a bit cold towards them.
I never really foresee the day when I will make a living out of this, no matter what strain of photography I happen to turn my hand too, therefore, I have no problem having the local paper use my shots for free, so I personally don’t feel ripped off.
Really, I never entertained the thought of actually taking work away from professional photographers. I get to maybe one match a week (usually local grassroots stuff), with work and family commitments, so I don’t think they will be getting too worried about me.
Just fancied a change from landscapes. As for referring to myself as a ‘snapper’? Well, I’ve been called worse…..
Ken
constantine wrote:
I have no problem having the local paper use my shots for free, so I personally don’t feel ripped off.
Constantine,
Well why don’t you give your landscape photographs away for free aswell (free prints for everyone in the audience), infact why stop there, how about your car, house, wife, kids, it’s not as if you will feel ripped off.
Regards,
Conor :roll:ctwomey wrote:
constantine wrote:
I have no problem having the local paper use my shots for free, so I personally don’t feel ripped off.
Constantine,
Well why don’t you give your landscape photographs away for free aswell (free prints for everyone in the audience), infact why stop there, how about your car, house, wife, kids, it’s not as if you will feel ripped off.
Regards,
Conor :roll:Its my choice what I do with my photographs.
If I want to give them away, thats what I will do. If I feel they warrant payment, than I will look for it.
Sorry it that dosen’t meet with your approval.
You should learn to respect other peoples opinions Conor. :roll:
K
constantine wrote:
If I want to give them away, thats what I will do. If I feel they warrant payment, than I will look for it.
Would you have issue if others just gave away landscape images for free, and so devalued your work? I think you might. But, yet you don’t have an issue with devaluing other people’s work/profession?
constantine wrote:
ctwomey wrote:
Constantine,
I have found 99% of all sports photographers to be very civil. I have got to know quite a number of the staff from the two main Sports Photography Agencies in Ireland and found them all to be very friendly. You will never ‘destroy their reputations’ because you simply cannot compete with the agencies. Remember as soon as the match is over, they probably have already sent the images and probably sold them aswell. They have full time staff selling images, chasing payments and licensing. You should also drop the word ‘snapper’ aswell as that only devalues the work that you do. I don’t think you would call a portrait or landscape photographer a ‘snapper’. Whatever you do dont give your photographs away for free even under the pretense of ‘getting your foot in the door’ as you are only ripping yourself off.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
ConorWell, in my experience, when I say ‘Hello, how are you?” and I get a look of contempt, I consider that uncivil behaviour, and I have found that to be the case in most all of my encounters with these agency photographers. Maybe I’ve just been unlucky, or maybe I’m being a bit cold towards them.
I never really foresee the day when I will make a living out of this, no matter what strain of photography I happen to turn my hand too, therefore, I have no problem having the local paper use my shots for free, so I personally don’t feel ripped off.
Really, I never entertained the thought of actually taking work away from professional photographers. I get to maybe one match a week (usually local grassroots stuff), with work and family commitments, so I don’t think they will be getting too worried about me.
Just fancied a change from landscapes. As for referring to myself as a ‘snapper’? Well, I’ve been called worse…..
Ken
You’d be surprised at the games that photographers can get hot & bothered about.. I was at the munster schools senior cup final last monday (rugby) and there were maybe 10 photographers there, about half of whom were sports photogrphaers, and maybe half of those experienced rugby photog’s. You can spot the rugby photographers by the waterproof trousers being worn even on a sunny day ‘cos they know how long it takes the pitches to dry out !
There were 2 “pro” photographers there who were very obviously not sports specialists. One was a woman dressed up to the 9’s and came onto the pitch wearing heels! though her focus did seem to be off the field, and I’m not certain she was a pro. The other was a guy in wellies, who proceeded to stand in the middle of the in-goal area for 5-10minutes in the 2nd half when the attacking team were only about 5mtrs out from the line. Suffice to say the air was turning blue around one of the regular rugby photographers with his comments about the welly wearer.
Generally I’ve not had a problem from the pro photographers when I’ve being covering rugby games as an amature photographer. And usually they’re quite friendly… of course with the rugby it’s reached the point where I’m a familiar face to them, and female sports photographers are in a significant minority. There were sniggers about my camera equipment when I first started out, but I’ve gained a level of respectability at this point, of course it probably helps that I’ve upgraded my equipment and I have had surf photos published. And I’ve so far avoided a camera dying due to rain exposure which couldn’t be said for one of the Getty Images photographers working at one of the matches I did !
constantine wrote:
I never really foresee the day when I will make a living out of this, no matter what strain of photography I happen to turn my hand too, therefore, I have no problem having the local paper use my shots for free, so I personally don’t feel ripped off.
Really, I never entertained the thought of actually taking work away from professional photographers. I get to maybe one match a week (usually local grassroots stuff), with work and family commitments, so I don’t think they will be getting too worried about me.
You’re giving away your images for free, and yet you never thought you were taking work away from the professionals? If you want respect then you need to also show respect. They’re trying to make a living, and you’re just giving things away for free.
By giving away images for free, you devalue yourself and the industry. You may not want to make a living from it, but surely you can use the money to buy extra gear and stuff?
In many ways, I’m similar to you. I have a full-time job and photography is mainly my hobby. But, if I submit images to the papers, then I expect to be paid if used. Some images have been used, and I have always then invoiced.
I can’t say that I understand your logic at all.
Ok…….
At this point in time I send my sports shots to the local paper, who use them. In return, I have asked them to keep me in mind if any freelance work comes up, which they will pay me for.
What they offer in tearms of payment was pretty low something like 20-25 euro per image, so I said I would appreciate, in the future, that my travel expenses be met. They said grand. They have used a sum total of four of my images so far. I don’t send my photos to anyone else but them.
I havent sent anything too them in a few weeks, their not bothered, nor am I.
Generally, at this moment, I go to our local clubs games, and take pictures there. Have gone to about five of their matchs so far this year. As of yet, havent sent any shots from those to my local paper.
Have met one guy round here whose maybe a year longer around the block photography wise than meself, but who chose the pro route. I offered my services to him, for free, as I recognised a good business head, and oppurtunity for money making down the line.
Don’t know why I feel the need to justify my actions to the people who seem to be aghast at my actions, but there you are, in a nutshell, my movements as a sports photographer to date.
Now again, If you have any problem (which I’m sure some of you will) please let me know.
Point of ramble above is…
I’m a weekend photographer, I enjoy it. I like seeing my pictures in a paper. Thats payment enough for me.
If that somehows riles you, well, tough!
paul wrote:
constantine wrote:
If I want to give them away, thats what I will do. If I feel they warrant payment, than I will look for it.
Would you have issue if others just gave away landscape images for free, and so devalued your work? I think you might. But, yet you don’t have an issue with devaluing other people’s work/profession?
Paul, If people want to use my images, I appreciate if they ask first, and if they want to pay me, thats an added bonus. If they want to steal my images, and use them to make millions on an advertising campaign, I may have an issue. I don’t know how I’d feel, hasen’t happened yet.
As for devaluing other peoples work? Hmmm…not sure how you came to that conclusion.
Maybe I am.I’ll check outside in a minute to see how many starving pro photographers are waiting to sue me because they no longer can get the rates they once commanded cause of lil ol me.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
