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Buying a Leica M6 (Advice needed)
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Hi folks,
In the process of getting myself a Leica M6. Looking at Leica M6 TTLs so I can use a flash. Like most people would know Leica M rangefinders are legendary due to their build quality and beautiful images they take. Famously used by pioneers of photography like Henri Cartier Bresson & Joel Meyerowitz for example. I have a micro four thirds digital camera. A Panasonic GX1 with Panasonic/Leica 25mm f1.4 and Panasonic 14mm f2.5 lenses. I am happy with the images I am taking with this camera but really want to begin things with a full frame 35mm. I may do a course in the future and having a film and digital camera would be very beneficial. If I decide not to do a course I would keep the Leica for a VERY long time and use it often. The M mount Leica lenses I would use on the Leica M6 would also be able to be used on the Panasonic GX1. Panasonic and Voigtlander M Mount to micro four thirds make very good quality adapters.
Been reading a lot about the Leica M6. Blue in the face reading all the different things to look out for and film scanning, users experiences, reviews etc.. :sick
Would be nice to hear from peoples own experience of this camera or indeed other Leica M cameras. It’s been a steep learning curve for me and it’s important to hear personal experiences and owners of these beautiful cameras (and lenses). The thread would also be handy for other people considering making the move to 35mm film or even Leica M cameras.
Not sure if there are many Leica users around here, one or two at most. http://i-image.ie/” onclick=”window.open(this.href);return false; is a site owned by Noel Young, he is a Leica expert and a restorer and may be able to advise you.
I have an M6 (non-TTL) and love it, superb build quality, simple to use, no regrets in purchasing in.
Couldn’t really afford Leica glass though, so after some research went with a Carl Zeiss Planar f2 50mm
and a Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 SC (single-coated) lens. Very pleased with both, someday a Leica Summicron f2 50mm
might find its way to me :)Very useful contact that Eddie, thanks !
Niceone folks. Will check it out when I get home. The iPhone app for the site works really well!
Started really in film photography, with a M6, and found it the perfect bridge from the world of full auto digital to less-automated fim cameras. 2 reasons drew me towards an M6, namely that of an M with a meter, and also an M not too far out of production. In all the M6 was a nice intro to 35mm film cameras, and also Leica M’s.
Unfortunately, I sold it, as my fear of meterless M’s receded, and regret it to this day a little. Of course, having a beautiful M3 which with a 50mm feels like an extension of my eye, takes the edge off a little :)
The M is as much a philosophy as anything else, without trying to sound poncey. That philosophy is one of a no frills shooting machine, with no unnecessary extras. Count the controls, and you will find a shutter sped dial, shutter release, film wind, film rewind, and sometimes either a self-timer or a meter. No bells or whistles, just a simple shooting machine.
Of course, Leica is not alone in producing models that are simple picture taking machines, as there are also many low-frills, quite well made film slr’s also. There is something though about being able to frame in a rangefinder for me though, and see outside the framelines, as well as inside them, and for me this is why I prefer a rangefinder over an slr, when it comes to 35mm.
It never hurts that it is a well made machine too, but unfortunately the leica bashers never look past the cost, and the fetishism aspect of Leica’s, thus a lot of what is out there is highly polarised, when it comes to Leica. Stick with those that actually use and shoot Leicas though, and you will see it is all about the shooting experience, and think an M6 would be a perfect first M for you and a great film camera.
If you think you can handle using a meterless camera, there is a beautiful landscape of M’s out there, and the M3, M2 and M4 are all wonderful cameras to start with too.
Eddie wrote:
Not sure if there are many Leica users around here, one or two at most.
You might be surprised actually :) I’m sure others may chime in, but know at least a half dozen Leica users here and am sure there are others. Even Berminghams in Dublin has started stocking Leica kit too (as well as Conns), so think the Leica base here in Ireland (and PI by association), is probably healthy enough.
My main camera these days is an M2. This is probably the most basic of the M-series cameras but it is great to use. It is also probably the cheapest Leica M on the used market. (I got mine for around €600 here in the USA).
It is 100% manual. There’s no meter but I use an external meter when I need to and after a while you can figure out the exposure in your head.
Newer Leica lenses are expensive but every so often you can pick up a clean one from the ’50s or ’60s for a decent price. Also the Voigtlander lenses are great and I heard good things about the Zeiss although I have never used one.
Check out the M2 if you are willing to forgo the light meter.
I had a fling with Leicas in the ’90s, starting off with an M2, then an M4P, and then eventually an M6. – I played with them for a while, then realized that they’re just (-nicely made ones admittedly-) light tight boxes holding film, like all the other cameras out there, so I sold them all after having had the M4P and M6 serviced a few too many times in annoyingly short intervals.
To me, unless you have an M9 – which is a different beast altogether – for professional reasons, or are a dentist; from a practical point of view and cost/benefit wise, to me these cameras are slightly masorchistic, slow, unergonomic and overpriced tools. Alternatively, though, you may well be a collector, like the “philosophy that is Leica”, or mainly do street photography, where rangefinders can fill an “unobtrusiveness” gap. Since I admittedly do like masochism in photography myself (joking) and still use 35mm film, at least for personal projects, I recently bought an old beat-up Contax II with a nice 50/2 for next to nothing (<€100), when I thought I needed to reassure myself that 35mm RF photography can be a simple pleasure after all; it too is sitting a lot though on a coffee table, to be fondled, albeit usually preloaded with CMS20, APX100, Tri-X or Portra; at least it didn't cost much. It also has to compete with e.g. the most intuitive and wonderful-to-use old Nikon FE2 SLR, which is about the same size. Drifting away from 35mm, I have mostly moved via medium (e.g. Mamiya7) to large format (various 4x5, 5x7 and panorama systems - now, THIS way to make photos I love -). Professionally, 95% of bread-and-butter (and more) photography is DSLR work though anyway. That and the large format stuff have firmly displaced any Leica-M thoughts. In short, we all have different avenues to photography and apologies, no direct "technical" advice (if you were after that).Of course, having a beautiful M3 which with a 50mm feels like an extension of my eye, takes the edge off a little :)
There is something though about being able to frame in a rangefinder for me though, and see outside the framelines, as well as inside them, and for me this is why I prefer a rangefinder over an slr, when it comes to 35mm.
Stick with those that actually use and shoot Leicas though, and you will see it is all about the shooting experience, and think an M6 would be a perfect first M for you and a great film camera.
If you think you can handle using a meterless camera, there is a beautiful landscape of M’s out there, and the M3, M2 and M4 are all wonderful cameras to start with too.
Even Berminghams in Dublin has started stocking Leica kit too (as well as Conns), so think the Leica base here in Ireland (and PI by association), is probably healthy enough.Damien: I love that quote from Henri Cartier-Bresson saying his Leica is like an extension of his eye :wink:
There seems to be a wide community of rangefinder fans and it is something I would love to use myself. Buying an SLR would not be an option for me. I also dream of getting results and great image quality from the M-Mount and Leica glass I have seen on the net.
I am thinking of sticking with my search of a Leica M6 unless if I find a cheaper “M” alternative that would allow me to purchase some nice glass as well. Like you said it would be a perfect first M camera. As I use my digital camera mainly in P-Mode I don’t think it would be too wise to make things more complicated by buying a meterless camera.
Thanks very much for that info Damien. I have also noticed Conns has some used Leica equipment there. I may check the shop out in the future but the prices seem to be a bit out of my budget for an M6.
My main camera these days is an M2. This is probably the most basic of the M-series cameras but it is great to use. It is also probably the cheapest Leica M on the used market. (I got mine for around €600 here in the USA).
It is 100% manual. There’s no meter but I use an external meter when I need to and after a while you can figure out the exposure in your head.
Newer Leica lenses are expensive but every so often you can pick up a clean one from the ’50s or ’60s for a decent price. Also the Voigtlander lenses are great and I heard good things about the Zeiss although I have never used one.
Check out the M2 if you are willing to forgo the light meter.Dave: Buying an M2 is still an option but the thought of having an external light meter is something that puts me off. I do not think I would be able to afford Leica glass. The prices seem very high on Ebay and like you said the Voigtlander lenses are great and a very good alternative. Mark also said the Zeiss glass is very good! Cheers
I played with them for a while, then realized that they’re just (-nicely made ones admittedly-) light tight boxes holding film, like all the other cameras out there, so I sold them all after having had the M4P and M6 serviced a few too many times in annoyingly short intervals. To me, unless you have an M9 – which is a different beast altogether – for professional reasons, or are a dentist; from a practical point of view and cost/benefit wise, to me these cameras are slightly masorchistic, slow, unergonomic and overpriced tools. Alternatively, though, you may well be a collector, like the “philosophy that is Leica”, or mainly do street photography, where rangefinders can fill an “unobtrusiveness” gap. Since I admittedly do like masochism in photography myself (joking) and still use 35mm film, at least for personal projects, I recently bought an old beat-up Contax II with a nice 50/2 for next to nothing (<€100), when I thought I needed to reassure myself that 35mm RF photography can be a simple pleasure after all; it too is sitting a lot though on a coffee table, to be fondled, albeit usually preloaded with CMS20, APX100, Tri-X or Portra; at least it didn't cost much. It also has to compete with e.g. the most intuitive and wonderful-to-use old Nikon FE2 SLR, which is about the same size. Drifting away from 35mm, I have mostly moved via medium (e.g. Mamiya7) to large format (various 4x5, 5x7 and panorama systems - now, THIS way to make photos I love -). Professionally, 95% of bread-and-butter (and more) photography is DSLR work though anyway. That and the large format stuff have firmly displaced any Leica-M thoughts. In short, we all have different avenues to photography and apologies, no direct "technical" advice (if you were after that).
The Fine Print: I am definitely not a collector or a person who is a collector of gadgets :lol: I see it as a tool and its the type of pictures they achieve is what I crave for. I do like Street photography but I am useless at it. Still trying hard to grasp certain things. I love my current digital camera and the way I can carry it anywhere and take photos with ease in urban environments. An M9 is a beautiful camera and I would love to own one and I can understand what you mean regarding the cost/benefit factor. As I am currently unemployed buying a film camera is a better option than spending more money on buying mass produced lenses for my current micro four thirds camera. If at the end of the day I will achieve “more unique” photos I will be very happy. The M Mount lenses would be able to be used on my Panasonic Gx1 with a lens adapter for the days when I get sick of film.
I understand what you are saying that you concluded that they are just (expensive) light tight boxes holding film and there are other alternatives like a Contax II or a Nikon FE2 SLR. I hope I do not regret taking your advice on board and if a Leica fails with me I will send you a PM to apologise :lol:
I was also thinking of bypassing 35mm and starting with the Mamiya 7 medium format rangefinder. The Mamiya takes beautiful photos and it is certainly an avenue I am still considering next to a Leica M. I have read on the net that the glass from the Mamiya is better than the Leica glass. Might be something you could confirm on? Interesting you said you went from 35mm to medium format. The lenses from the Mamiya is what I was concerned with regarding performance in low light situations. Would you skip the whole 35mm thing if you were in my poor runners?
Thanks very much for the info and I found it very beneficial. The names of the 35mm film you use is helpful too.
When you said about dentists buying M9s I thought of this quote from Pablo Picasso I found the other day:
“Two of the most frustrated trades are dentists and photographers- dentists because they want to be doctors, and photographers because they want to be painters.”Maybe dentists want to be photographers too? haha
Pricewise, I imagine you’re looking at between 750- 1,000 for an M6 body, but not sure what Conns are asking for.
Meterwise, I use a nice little Sekonic L-208 (twinmate), which I find very convenient, and actually more so than the M6’s inbuilt meter. In any case, perhaps don’t write it off just yet, as you may be surprised how quickly you get used to a meterless camera and the subconscious habit of using an incident meter when the lighting changes, and adjusting the shutter speed and/ or aperture as you go, so that when you raise the camera to your eye, exposure has already been taken care of.
In any case, two things worth considering perhaps :)
Feel free folks to add a review of your Leica experiences (incl lenses) up here too :D
reviews/browse/rangefinders/leica
damien.murphy wrote:
Pricewise, I imagine you’re looking at between 750- 1,000 for an M6 body, but not sure what Conns are asking for.
Meterwise, I use a nice little Sekonic L-208 (twinmate), which I find very convenient, and actually more so than the M6’s inbuilt meter. In any case, perhaps don’t write it off just yet, as you may be surprised how quickly you get used to a meterless camera and the subconscious habit of using an incident meter when the lighting changes, and adjusting the shutter speed and/ or aperture as you go, so that when you raise the camera to your eye, exposure has already been taken care of.
In any case, two things worth considering perhaps :)
Hi Damien. Defo worth considering. Yes, I am looking for an M6 at the lower end of your estimate and even cheaper if possible. Conns are asking for €1300 for a black M6 body. They also have X3 Leica M8s going for €2000.
I’ve taken note of the Sekonic L-208 (twinmate) and opened to the idea of getting a Leica M3 now :wink:
Thanks very much.
No worries :)
M3 is a fine camera, and perfection in my opinion for shooting 50mm and is not too bad for 90mm too. An M2 is a more flexible option if you’re shooting 35mm, and not too bad for 50mm either, but then there’s no reason not to have both :)
Thats pricey for an M6 in Conns, I’d take a look at rangefinderforum.com in the classifieds, which is almost always a good, decent place to buy online.
The twinmate is a nice meter, have found no fault with mine, especially as I use it for incident metering on the go, when the light changes.
In any case, good luck with your search, and if seriously considering an M3, just beware of the potential viewfinder issues. I have one with a perfect viewfinder, and could not be happier about it :)
RE:
“I was also thinking of bypassing 35mm and starting with the Mamiya 7 medium format rangefinder.”
Yes, I love the Mamiya. Technically one can argue that the 35mm era is almost completely over, except for street photography perhps. The slow start-up time and shutter lag of ALL digi-compacts by the way (- yes, I’m looking at you, too, Fuji X-Pro- ) is partially negated by many traditional camera’s lack of AF and the average photographer’s inability to manually pre- and follow-focus critically and in time. Functionally, Intuitively, esthetically and emotionally perhaps there is of course still scope for 35mm, but personally, I see no big advantage of a 35mm RF over an SLR.
Since you’re on a budget, why not look into getting 6-times the real estate any 35mm Leica or similar can provide and get e.g. a €260 Fuji GW690, as seen on the bay: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Fuji-Fujifilm-GW690-Medium-Format-Film-Camera-/230776882129?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item35bb5fc3d1. Ok, fixed lens, no lightmeter, but UNDER THREEHUNDRED EUROS for a bulletproof 50MP equivalent rangefinder with excellent lens! Film and developing costs about the same as 35mm, but you only get 8 pics on 120. The thing I like about the larger formats I use is not the extra resolution so much as the wonderful tonality. Critical focus though is even more important as you move up in format due to shallower DOF for the same picture angle and f-stop, exacerbated by the higher propensity for motion-blur at the longer FL…..Decisions decisions, hey? I’m glad I’m sorted for gear….good luck.Sorry to be changing the discussion away from Leicas but how do you find using a body with no meter to be?
I’ve been thinking of picking up an old, cheap Soviet era Leica knock-off (a Zorki or Fed) just to keep on me at all times. The lack of meter on them has been holding me back. I’ve been trying to keep exposure values in my head from my shots, but with the DSLR it’s just a few buttons to change the ISO and that always seems to put me off because I can be anywhere from 200 to 1600 ISO in just a few seconds. I’ve shot a bit of film, and have always stuck at 400ISO but still find myself a good bit out on a fair few shots, I’d get maybe half the roll within a stop or two. Is it just a matter of taking the plunge and learning the hard way?
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