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Canon Eos 450D flash help…..PLEASE!!
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Maybe some of the wiser folks here might be able to help me on this. Since I got the 450D 12 months ago it always seems to underperform indoors compared to my Fuji S5000. Drastically so. Either with or without the 430EX the result is the same.
Subjects OK but background completely dark. I’ve tried auto (poor); M (with flash popped and shutter speed forced to 1/200) the same; and the best results come from AV with the shutter speed at around 1/50.
I’ve compared the results to the EXIF data on the Fuji shots and one which was shot in a pub in almost complete darkness (with excellent results) shows that the Fuji (in auto) decided on F2.8; ISO 200. Obviously my 17-85 lens is only F4.0 minimum and my 50mm 1.4 lens does not zoom, so this can be restrictive.
The results are so poor in some cases that I’m considering buying another Fuji bridge camera for indoor shots (which are important to me). I don’t want to land more money out on another Canon lens. The 450D’s outdoor performance in manual mode is stunning.
All help and advice gratefully appreciated.
Regards,
Freddie.
Indoors with flash and AV mode, means the camera will select a shutter speed based on the ambient light, which invariably will be too slow for handheld. I am surprised if you do not get decent ressults in auto or P mode? Auto or P mode (with the pop up flash or a flashgun) will set a minimum shutter speed of 1/60 sec to allow handheld photos. Make sure you set your ISO to at least 400, and preferably 800 in indoor evening environment.
You mention 1/200 sec shutter speed = which is wayyy too fast to allow ambient light to register. Try Auto or P mode again, with ISO 800 and I would be surprised if you dont get good results.
If all else fails, your 50mm f1.4 lens is best option. Use manual mode, shutter speed 1/60 sec, ISO 800 and f5.6, with your flash in ETTL mode. Change the aperture up or down depending on your result.Let me know how you get on.
Ross
Indoors with flash and AV mode, means the camera will select a shutter speed based on the ambient light, which invariably will be too slow for handheld. I am surprised if you do not get decent ressults in auto or P mode? Auto or P mode (with the pop up flash or a flashgun) will set a minimum shutter speed of 1/60 sec to allow handheld photos. Make sure you set your ISO to at least 400, and preferably 800 in indoor evening environment.
You mention 1/200 sec shutter speed = which is wayyy too fast to allow ambient light to register. Try Auto or P mode again, with ISO 800 and I would be surprised if you dont get good results.
If all else fails, your 50mm f1.4 lens is best option. Use manual mode, shutter speed 1/60 sec, ISO 800 and f5.6, with your flash in ETTL mode. Change the aperture up or down depending on your result.Let me know how you get on.
Ross
Rossco wrote:
Indoors with flash and AV mode, means the camera will select a shutter speed based on the ambient light, which invariably will be too slow for handheld. I am surprised if you do not get decent ressults in auto or P mode? Auto or P mode (with the pop up flash or a flashgun) will set a minimum shutter speed of 1/60 sec to allow handheld photos. Make sure you set your ISO to at least 400, and preferably 800 in indoor evening environment.
You mention 1/200 sec shutter speed = which is wayyy too fast to allow ambient light to register. Try Auto or P mode again, with ISO 800 and I would be surprised if you dont get good results.
If all else fails, your 50mm f1.4 lens is best option. Use manual mode, shutter speed 1/60 sec, ISO 800 and f5.6, with your flash in ETTL mode. Change the aperture up or down depending on your result.Let me know how you get on.
Ross
Cheers Ross.
Will do. :)
Hi Freddie,
Interesting that you should ask that question.
I have a EOS 20D since 2004.
Before that I used a Pentax K1000 (Ext flash when required) &
my 1st digital was a 3MP Sony DSC-P32.
No real probs with flash & the sony was really good for indoors.The indoor flash shots were awful with the 20D. Like you I have tried
different settings but still not good.As I rarely use flash anyway except for “necessary” family stuff where there
there is no other light I have’nt really thought about it much.Your question has reminded me of the issue. I will watch this space.
John.
5faythe wrote:
Hi Freddie,
Interesting that you should ask that question.
I have a EOS 20D since 2004.
Before that I used a Pentax K1000 (Ext flash when required) &
my 1st digital was a 3MP Sony DSC-P32.
No real probs with flash & the sony was really good for indoors.The indoor flash shots were awful with the 20D. Like you I have tried
different settings but still not good.As I rarely use flash anyway except for “necessary” family stuff where there
there is no other light I have’nt really thought about it much.Your question has reminded me of the issue. I will watch this space.
John.
Good to know it’s not just me then John. I hope I don’t inflame something here (not my intention) but is there an almost palpable consensus NOT to criticise any DSLRs which under perform in relation to P & S or Bridge cameras?
Rossco wrote:
Indoors with flash and AV mode, means the camera will select a shutter speed based on the ambient light, which invariably will be too slow for handheld. I am surprised if you do not get decent ressults in auto or P mode? Auto or P mode (with the pop up flash or a flashgun) will set a minimum shutter speed of 1/60 sec to allow handheld photos. Make sure you set your ISO to at least 400, and preferably 800 in indoor evening environment.
You mention 1/200 sec shutter speed = which is wayyy too fast to allow ambient light to register. Try Auto or P mode again, with ISO 800 and I would be surprised if you dont get good results.
If all else fails, your 50mm f1.4 lens is best option. Use manual mode, shutter speed 1/60 sec, ISO 800 and f5.6, with your flash in ETTL mode. Change the aperture up or down depending on your result.Let me know how you get on.
Ross
Just an update on this. Have tried M with shutter speed between 1/20 and 1/50, and ISO 400-800. Massive difference in results. Problem solved.
Thanks Rosco.
IOP wrote:
Freddie,
are you talking about direct flash or bounced flash?
Dave
Hello Dave. Same with both. And with a 430EX. I was never happy with either, compared to the Fuji S5000. Until now.
Freddie.
Freddie,
with Direct Flash you always get the “Cave Effect” where everything in the background gets progressively darker. What you hit upon was the mixing of the available light with the flash by letting more light in through the shutter/aperture which gives you a better exposure for the back of the room.
A good technique here is to try to see what exposure the available light gives you, without the flash. If the shutter speed isn’t too slow you can then add the flash. If the flash is too weak or too powerful you can then always use the Flash Exposure Compensation setting to increase or decrease the flash. (Menu>2nd Red Tap>2nd Line “Flash Exp Comp”)
An even easier way is to bounce the flash off the ceiling (if the ceiling is 8 to 10ft). My own experience of the 430 EX is that it usually needs some extra flash exposure compensation (more power) and sometimes higher ISO when bouncing off higher ceilings. Bounced flash also means you get more natural looking light as the light appears to be coming from above,
Dave
IOP wrote:
Freddie,
with Direct Flash you always get the “Cave Effect” where everything in the background gets progressively darker. What you hit upon was the mixing of the available light with the flash by letting more light in through the shutter/aperture which gives you a better exposure for the back of the room.
A good technique here is to try to see what exposure the available light gives you, without the flash. If the shutter speed isn’t too slow you can then add the flash. If the flash is too weak or too powerful you can then always use the Flash Exposure Compensation setting to increase or decrease the flash. (Menu>2nd Red Tap>2nd Line “Flash Exp Comp”)
An even easier way is to bounce the flash off the ceiling (if the ceiling is 8 to 10ft). My own experience of the 430 EX is that it usually needs some extra flash exposure compensation (more power) and sometimes higher ISO when bouncing off higher ceilings. Bounced flash also means you get more natural looking light as the light appears to be coming from above,
Dave
Thanks for that Dave.
Much appreciated.
Regards,
Freddie.
I’ve posted about this before, so just an update. Would appreciate any advice. I had a Fuji s5000 for years. Never a problem with indoor photography (in full auto). As for the 450D? A different story alotogether. I’ve received various advice about using Tv only, AV only (with shutter forced to 1/200), etc.
Nothing worked. Last night I was taking some photos at a birthday party in a club, with reasonable lighting, with a Speedlite 430EX attached. The shutter was nearly at tripod territory, and the ISO at 1600. Ceiling bounced flash (ceiling 8 feet, white aeroboard tiles). Upon checking the Exif data on the Fuji snaps, it was able to shoot at f/2.8, ISO 400 with great results.
I’m baffled as to why the 450D can’t do this. I was using the 17-85 IS lens. I have a 50mm 1.4, but the obvious zooming problems prevented me from using it.
Is a 2.8 lens the only answer? It seems a bit financially excessive, given that the S5000 had no problems. For a lot less dosh.
I thought the problem was solved. Unfortunately not! Hair is being torn out as I type!
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Freddie.
Final update, if it’s any help to anyone in the same boat. I was trying to shoot M, but the camera, even with ISO 1600, was pushing shutter speeds to their lowest, with the inevitable blur in some shots.
I suppose the reason I was using M is that I use this all the time outdoors. Final resolution was to use Tv, ISO 400-800 (depending on available light), and FEC of 2/3.
Problem solved. Nice, clean photos, with no cave effect.
So all I was missing was to shoot in Tv, rather than M. Thanks to everyone for all the help.
Cheers,
Freddie.
Hi guys. I used the 450d with flash and the results were fine on both internal and external flash. You might want to check what metering is being used. I found that when spot metering was used my main subject tended to be fine , but the background went almost black.
miki g wrote:
Hi guys. I used the 450d with flash and the results were fine on both internal and external flash. You might want to check what metering is being used. I found that when spot metering was used my main subject tended to be fine , but the background went almost black.
Thanks Miki. Will check.
freddie.
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