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Canon or Nikon
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I’m a new amateur and I want to get a digital SLR with a view to some potential work in the near future. As such I want to get the best camera I can for my budget. I’ve heard different things about Canon’s and Nikon’s with the Canon appearing to be the market leader these days. I’ve decided on one or the other but would like to know the basic pros and cons of both. What’s the deal with interchangeability of lenses? I heard the Nikon’s aren’t as flexible as the Canon’s and existing owners of Nikon’s have had to replace loads of lenses. Since I don’t have a digital SLR at all I’m starting from scratch. I’m thinking a Nikon D40x, D80 or possibly D300 if I can afford it. Alternatively the Canon 40D. What are my options for a camera that’s suitable for a beginner but flexible enough to use for work??
First off Phil, welcome to the site!
I’m a Nikon user so can really only speak from that point of view. I have had several Nikons
and have been very happy. I’m sure that Canon users will be equally as happy with their purchases.I can’t speak for Canon, but the Nikon lenses are very interchangeable and I believe more so than Canon lenses.
There are of course some exceptions, the D40x will only work with AF-S lenses, which is a camera limitation not a lens one.
The D300 will meter with manual (except pre-AI – quite an old version) lenses.If you have the budget for it, then go for the D300, I have the D200 and its great, so the D300 can only be a step up again.
The D80 is also a very fine Nikon. I would tend to avoid the D40x due to the restriction on the type of lenses available for it.On the Canon side, I’m sure others can provide you with the relevant information.
I will say though, that you should go into a camera stop and try both brands and see what feels good to hold. I know that might
sound a bit silly, but it actually does make a different.Whatever you choose, you won’t go far wrong to be honest. Both Nikon and Canon are good brands.
There are of course other brands out there, Sony, Pentax etc… which some members are using.
Let us know what you choose :)
Either will serve you well. Canon have been market leader for quite a while, but at this moment in time, I would say Nikon have the edge in terms of innovation, features etc.
As regards lenses, you can’t use a Canon on a Nikon body, or vice versa (well, you can actually do the latter with an adapter, but you’d only want to do this if you already had some great Nikon lens you didn’t want parted from – ie in your case, you don’t!) Both makers lenses are fine optically, and there’s probably very little to make one range stand out from the other. Additionally all the third party lenses (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina etc) are available for both. The Nikon mount has been around for 50 odd years, and in theory any Nikon lens ever made will fit, though the newer Nikon entry level models will only autofocus with lenses that have a motor built into the lens. I’m not sure how much of a drawback this is in practice, as I’m in the Canon camp, so I’ll leave that to someone with a Nikon to elaborate.
So you really can’t go wrong with either. One major pain is that neither offer in camera stablisation like practically all the other manufacturers. The reason being that both have a nice revenue stream in stablised lenses to exploit. What I’d say is go and try to actually hold the various camera, and figure out what works for you.
John
JMcL wrote:
Either will serve you well. Canon have been market leader for quite a while, but at this moment in time, I would say Nikon have the edge in terms of innovation, features etc.
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One major pain is that neither offer in camera stablisation like practically all the other manufacturers. The reason being that both have a nice revenue stream in stablised lenses to exploit. What I’d say is go and try to actually hold the various camera, and figure out what works for you.Hi John,
Just wondering what innovations you’d say give Nikon the edge? I’ve been waiting for the 450D to come out (first DSLR), I’d thought from my reading that it was the other way around and Canon were more on the cutting edge. The only advantage I saw with Nikon was that the level above the D40/D40x has an glass prism viewfinder where the Canons have the mirror arrangement.Was told by a Canon demonstrator that the reason Canon and Nikon use lens IS rather than in-body was because the in-body is slower and can cause skips etc. when the digital image is being updated as you pan. Don’t know if it’s true, but I bought it at the time :)
Cheers,
rRerun,
The real reason Nikon and Canon don’t offer in-body stabilisation is because they are well aware that by introducing it, they will decimate their optically stabilised lens sales. They are in a very difficult position with that problem. Of course, they will claim a stop advantage as a counter, but you’ve got to remember that in body stabilisation works with ANY lens. That is a HUGE advantage to the in-body system. With high ISO quality improving, 1 stop advantage with optical stabilisation is negligible (even if it is true).
You really shouldn’t rule out Pentax and Sony. Pentax in particular offer probably the best bang for the buck to the serious amateur or emerging pro with their K10D. This camera can be had for as little as £399 sterling. This is a hi spec body that will certainly serve your needs up to pro level (assuming you’re not a hi speed sports reporter). It’s weathersealed with in-body stabilisation and now pentax has got it’s lens line up sorted it is definitely re-emerging system. Just look at the superb pentax small format primes (14mm, 21mm, 40mm, 70mm and new 200mm, 300mm). Also, the new K20 is just round the corner and I have to say that the sample images look astonishing (Canon 5D quality).
Anyway, as you can tell I’m a Pentax fan of 12 years. 3 years ago and I would have honestly told you to forget Pentax and Sony (Konica) and told you to go and buy a Canon or Nikon. Now I’m telling you, it’s no two horse race. Sony and Pentax (Samsung) are up there and are pulling strong.
Andy
I’m a Canon user myself, and I see a lot of different cameras come through with my workshop students.
I agree with what’s been said – Canon and Nikon are the market leaders, although Sony may well become a force to be reckoned with. I don’t know enough about Pentax to comment on them.
Canon have had the edge in innovation for many years, but with the D3 and the D300, and the new lenses they released at the same time have equalled, and in the case of the camera bodies, surpassed Canon in many areas. The major benefit to the D3 and D300 over their Canon equivalents is exceptionally good high-ISO performance. Nikon have made huge strides in this area, and while Canon’s flagship 1D and 1Ds Mk III bodies are very good in this regard also, Nikon has the advantage in two areas – they have the edge in terms of quality in this regard, and also have this performance available in an affordable body (the D300).
Nikon have also got an advantage in terms of overall lens quality, although this is debatable in some areas and certainly not a huge concern (else no-one would stick with Canon).
In general, I prefer Canon, as the way Nikon does some things irritates me – but this is purely from a usability point of view and Nikon users would probably feel the same way about Canons, so like Mark said – go into a shop and play with each extensively.
Cheers,
PeterFirst and foremost, welcome to PI.
Phil, before attempting to answer this, I think it’s worth asking. What type of photography are you going to use the camera for? You mentioned using it for work in the future, what type of conditions will you be using it under, indoor, outdoor, building site, top of a mountain, hot/cold conditions…..
I also notice that you say you know very little about photography, so even thinking of getting Nikon D300 is a no no. Although it’s an outstanding camera (one that I would like), I think it’s not suited to you. It’s aimed at the semi-professional. The same could almost be said for the Canon 40D.
Anyway, given your lack of understanding of photography, have you thought of some of the prosumer cameras, they look like an SLR but the lens can’t be changed. Look at the Fuji Finepix 9600 (9.1mp), great camera. This type of camera will help simplify the whole process, whilst still leaving you with some creative options.
Going back to the Canon or Nikon topic… Nikon do a large range of quality lenses as do Canon. There are also 3rd party lenses from Tamron and Sigma, so don’t be fooled by the larger lens range argument. Nikon have lots of available lenses.
And finally which one would I pick Nik or Can….. recently I nearly jumped ship and bought a Canon 40D, I’m so glad I didn’t, I’d personally go for a Sony A700.
Brian –
I’d have to disagree with you on your recommendation against an SLR. If the poster wants to learn how to take photographs well, a camera which has well-designed manual controls is the only way to go. Most non-SLRs (even the so-called prosumer ones) are geared towards automatic operation and as a result the manual controls (if present at all) are often awkward to use. If he doesn’t want to spend the money on the D300/40D, then the D40x/450D are much more economical and offer the advantages an SLR has to offer.The poster can then upgrade to a more advanced body in time and retain his lenses from the old camera.
It is important to note that equipment alone does not improve your photography. Equipment gets you that last 10% of quality. A good photographer will get a better image on a cameraphone than a poor photographer will with the highest-end SLR.
Cheers,
PeterCanon and Nikon between them share 90% of the Digital SLR market. Who is better is debatable.
The pendulum swings between the two every 6-12 months based on their latest model releases. I think it has recently swung towards Nikon, but at some stage soon Canon will release the 450D, the 5D Mark II and possibly the 3D which could have the effect of swinging the pendulum back in their direction. This will go on and on with every cycle of releases.
If you buy either a Canon or a Nikon you certainly won’t be stuck when it comes to finding colleagues using the same brand, maybe to borrow a lens or ask a brand specific question. Personally I think this is a very important aspect when it comes to starting up and trying to learn. Whilst the likes of Sony, Pentax, Olympus etc produce fine cameras you could be stretched trying to find colleagues who use these brands. For this reason and given where you are coming from I would recommend either Canon or Nikon.
Canon and Nikon both have good trade-in/sell-on value.
You wouldn’t have any problems finding 3rd party accessories for them on eBay, Buy & Sell etc.
Now as to which one… Canon or Nikon… I really don’t think it matters that much, if at all. At the end of the day they will both produce fine images when put in the correct hands and used in the correct manner. Flip the coin, “Heads for Canon – Tails for Nikon”, go buy one and enjoy. Never look back with regret.
Up until about 1 month ago I owned both. In the end I stuck with Canon. I just preferred their user interface. Can’t say I noticed any difference in the image quality.
Hiya Peter,
No no I wasn’t recommending against an SLR. Phil had mentioned he would use it for work and we don’t know what he works at, which could effect his final camera decision. (I mean do you really wanna be changing a lens on dusty building site, if that’s his work environment) I was merely letting Phil know that prosumer cameras shouldn’t be disregarded, merely throwing the idea on to the table as a consideration. Maybe he’s already considered these and they don’t fit his requirements, in which the case, fair enough. Until he can tell us more about the type of photography or how far he wants to progress, no camera can or should be disregarded.But yeah, I agree with the last 10% of quality. Just because a camera has all the bells and whistles don’t mean it will suit everyone and produce quality results for every user. Too many bells and whistles can confuse the job of taking a photograph.
Anyway, Phil you won’t go far wrong with the advise of ppl on these boards.
Some good advice given above. On the issue of image stabilisation, lens based image stabilisation is far superior to camera body based stabilisation for a number of reason, but all having to do with the fact that lens based image stabilisation is optimised for each lens. If you’ve ever done any sailing then you’ll know that what might seem like a small movement on the deck of the boat becomes much bigger if your up in the rigging (essentially, the mast). The deck is like you camera body and the mast like your lens. Gyro sensors built into the lens detect the motion of the lens and this in turn results in a special group of elements in the lens moving to correct the movement. Sounds a whole lot more efficient to me than moving a sensor and of course because it’s built into the lens it takes into account the focal length of the lens.
Depending on which lens you use, you stand to gain as much as 4 stops extra. There’s more on Canon’s image stabilisation here You might also be interested in having a read of Canon’s Starting out with digital I presume Nikon have similar guides, but I’m not familiar with their website other than having recently downloaded their excellent flash guide (SB800 Techniques) (even if you don’t use Nikon flash units, it’s a useful resource to have!)
Speaking of guides, Canon’s Lens Work III is also an excellent resource (it comprises 11 PDF files)
Canon or Nikon? Both great makers. If you have the money D300. If budget is a little tight Canon 40D. Forget about Image Stabilisation in the bodies of other makers. It only works at short focal lengths, where you need it least. In an IS lens an optical component in the lens moves in response to motion to maintain the location of the image on the sensor. If the IS is built into the body the sensor has to move. The level of movement required at long focal lengths is just not possible if the sensor has to move.
Good luck.
John
We can’t help being drawn into these discussions can we.
At the school, I see a lot of Canon cameras. I think Canon win the marketing race and the magazines seem to feature Canon’s strongly, (I’ve been told they sell more magazines if a Canon is on the front). The user interface, to me, is much more intuitive on the Nikons than the Canons, yes I use Nikons myself but am very familiar with the Canons.
For me, it’s about what feels right in your hand, I currently use Nikons and Fujis but used Canons for years before that. The layout of the shutter,aperture, fire button are just more natural on the Nikon for me.
With respect to quality… Canon “L” series range of lenses ar now up with the Nikon equivalents, beware the Canon kit lens, it’s not very good whereas the Nikon Kit lenses are surprisingly good.
Nikon Flash system was often a good reason to choose Nikon if you use flash a lot (I do), again, the new Canon flash units are much improved and there is little to choose between either range now for final image quality.
6 months ago Canon was leading in just about all categories. now:
Nikon D80 better than Canon 400D
Nikon D300 better than 40D
Nikon D3 better than mkIII
Canon 1dsmkIII (Is this the designation), best of the lot at 24 megapixels, if you can find lenses that will out resolve it.In 6 months time, who knows! :)
HOwever… better for what?
Value of rmoney considerations:
Canon 30d, excellent camera, Nikon D200 another excellent camera, both very capable in the right hands.
Do you want a full-frame sensor, great for wider shots, not so good for sports and wildlife where the “Crop” factor gives you some free “Zoom”.
WHat has changed, is that pretty well all cameras made in the last 18 months are “Keepers”, they will all perform well for their lifetimes without a need to upgrade to the latest, greatest features. Noise/dynamic range control is improving, final image quality at low ISOs hasn’t changed a great deal.
Do you want to use the jpegs straight from the camera? Then a Fuji S5, fantastic jpeg camera, better than all the above for “Straight from camera” jpegs, IMO.
So a tricky decision, I could probably argue all of the above a different way if I wanted to push the Canon range :) Go and try them in the shop and see which one feels right :)
Si
OK, coming back to the original questions, let’s see if we can get down to specifics!
phildoyle wrote:I’m a new amateur and I want to get a digital SLR with a view to some potential work in the near future. As such I want to get the best camera I can for my budget.
In that case, my suggestion would be to get something that’s middle of the range, but do not underestimate the importance of lens choice and that with a limited budget it makes more sense to put an quality lens on a cheaper body than it does to put a budget lens on an expensive body!
phildoyle wrote:
I’ve heard different things about Canon’s and Nikon’s with the Canon appearing to be the market leader these days.
In terms of number of units sold, there is no doubt that Canon are the market leader. But that alone is not a valid reason for buying one brand over the other.
phildoyle wrote:
I’ve decided on one or the other but would like to know the basic pros and cons of both.
Both have their good points and their bad points, but I’m not going to make a comparison here because I don’t know Nikon well enough myself.
phildoyle wrote:
What’s the deal with interchangeability of lenses? I heard the Nikon’s aren’t as flexible as the Canon’s and existing owners of Nikon’s have had to replace loads of lenses.
The only reason I can think of that Nikon users have to change loads of lenses is if they are buying the new D3 and want to take advantage of the full-frame sensor. If, up until now, they have been using DX lenses, then their 12.1 megapixel Nikon D3 simply becomes an expensive 5.1 megapixel camera and in order to take advantage of the full frame they need to replace their lenses. There are similar (perhaps worse!) lens restrictions with Canon in that you cannot use an EF-S lens on a full frame Canon body such as the 5D.
phildoyle wrote:
Since I don’t have a digital SLR at all I’m starting from scratch. I’m thinking a Nikon D40x, D80 or possibly D300 if I can afford it. Alternatively the Canon 40D. What are my options for a camera that’s suitable for a beginner but flexible enough to use for work??
You’re thinking along the right lines, although I think the D300 might be overkill for you at the moment. Instead, you should look at spending any extra money on lenses. The D300 will eventually be replaced by another better camera (as will the other models) but your lenses will (should!) last a lifetime if you choose the right ones to begin with.
phil…
Maybe let us know what you end up buying and these rationale behind your decision.
This question gets asked all the time. I think this post is now nearing a good reference point for any future questions of a similar nature.
Closing the circle with your decision info would be good.
John
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