- This topic is empty.
Considering Photography as a career change
-
I’m involved in quite alot of training and development work and have had alot of contact with people who deliver training for FAS and other SYOB courses… some of them would amaze you with the background and experience they are coming from… and not in a good way !!
Lorraine
Interesting perspectives guys! I’ve come to the similar conclusions in the past, more on the academic qualification side than the business side… but I guess it’s a lot of the same thing. Why learn it in a classroom when you could be out doing it for real? I guess people want to try to take out the guesswork. However futile that may be…?
First night i started the course it was an introduction type night so everybody was there to say what their intentions in business was. When it came to me and i told him what my plan was he more or less said that it would not really take off because there was an already establised studio in the town at present.
As you can guess i was gutted from his reaction,talk about trying to encouage industry..Ha! Anywys i seen the course through and i must say i did consider things half way through as when the acocuntants and bank managers gave their talks i felt like wow there is so much to take in and learn and all i want to do is do what i love best-Photography. Its a real pity the likes of Carian had to endure that and does not encourage the rest of us to follow the Enterprise path, although it does help even for yourself to draw up a business plan,there’s nothing like seen a projected cashflow for the year ahead when you only have two euro’s in yer pocket!! :lol:
Benben wrote:
First night i started the course it was an introduction type night so everybody was there to say what their intentions in business was. When it came to me and i told him what my plan was he more or less said that it would not really take off because there was an already establised studio in the town at present.
As you can guess i was gutted from his reaction,talk about trying to encouage industry..Ha! Anywys i seen the course through and i must say i did consider things half way through as when the acocuntants and bank managers gave their talks i felt like wow there is so much to take in and learn and all i want to do is do what i love best-Photography. Its a real pity the likes of Carian had to endure that and does not encourage the rest of us to follow the Enterprise path, although it does help even for yourself to draw up a business plan,there’s nothing like seen a projected cashflow for the year ahead when you only have two euro’s in yer pocket!! :lol:
BenThey do discourage you so that only the serious minded will continue on. Its sort of policy to “shake the branches to get the dead leaves off”. They also do not like to see competition just in case that it may damage the up and running business and instead of having one working industry they may end up with 2 failed ones. Theres a sort of logic in it……but its not necessarly correct. A musician I used to play in a band with has gone throught something simular and after about a year when the County Enterprise Board saw he was not giving up they rowed in behind him and now he is flying high and manufacturing wrought iron stuff.
I suppose the secret is not to give up and if they see you are really serious they will help but its best to be in a sort of position that if help does not come you can at least survive without it. One problem is they can also hold you back in your growth as the wheels in these organisations move very slowly
Just in case anyone missed the posting on the main forum, I am recruiting a full time professional portrait photographer and a full time trainee at the moment.
For more info please email me on royportfolio-gallery.com
Roy
”Professional photographers are expected to come up with strong images on a daily basis. Amateurs are not under the same pressure to produce. This means that often amateurs wil produce better images than professional photographers as they are not under the same constraints that a professional is. If an amateur doesn’t get it right first time, they can go back and try again, as often as necessary, to get the perfect image. A professional photographer doesn’t have that luxury and has to come up with the perfect image first time areound.”
I have seen images by amateur photographers that i would class well within the standards of pros and above. But read the paragraph above theres a hell of a lot of advice in it, with regards to working under pressure u have to realise that the client puts their trust in u and the most important thing is to deliver, at least of a good standard if not a perfect standard, a rfe shoot for a pro is a whole different ball game ur mistake could cost u a couple of grand in a heartbeat and end ur career.
With regard to film i am going to say something – One thing that film does is teach you dicipline, no matter what u think, try working for a day with an old hassie 500 or somethin like that, its good practise, and really brings u down to earth, i do it at least two or three times a year.
So whatever u decide i like to see people get on and i wish you the best of luck.Another thing you have to bear in mind is to have the patience of the proverbial saint !!
Each job (portraits / weddings) could produce, and often does, extra business. You need to be able to get on with the most trying of people. The old adage of the customer is always right, even when they are wrong rings true here.
One thing that has been mentioned on many threads, and is also evident in critiqueing, is the subjective nature of photography. If you are very established, people may come to you for your particular style etc. untill then, you need to judge what the customer wants and try to deliver. And, as already mentioned, you only have the one chance. Going back to a client to say that you have to do it again could be commercial suicide, and even worse in the case of a wedding !!
There are a huge amount of variables, and, having taken the leap earlier this year, I am still coming up against things I had not thought about. Its a big learning curve, so you need to have confidence in your ability to relate to people and produce top quality images constantly.
Rgds
Kevin
I am only a newbie to photography and this website has been an invaluable resource to me.
I’ve learned a huge amount and seen some great pictures that have inspired me to go out and take
more pictures. Everyone here is always really helpful and very professional in their advice.
I have one complaint though. Whenever the subject of JOBS comes up some people seem to get
a little territorial. It’s like the magic circle at times. ” we can show you our tricks, but you can’t come in”Like I said I am only new and such my opinion is fairly ill-informed however I cannot accept the photography
industry is so fragile that it cannot support an influx of new photographers.I looked a lot of established photographers websites while researching where I myself would like to specialise
and I have noticed that some professionals seem to be extremely good at producing the same old shots.
There is real sense of the generic with some of them.I’ve worked in IT for over ten years now and I am constantly iterviewing 20 year olds who can run rings
around me. I’m not afraid to let these folks, I can learn a lot from them and they still have a lot they can learn from me.As a newbie I would never disrespect of any established professional, far from it. However some people can make it very difficult
to get your foot in the door.Apologies if I annoyed anyone – it was not my intention
Graham – pissing people off! Nah, I doubt it. What you say is completely true. There are however some notable exceptions; professional photographers that are more than happy to help you out with advice and tips. The trick is finding these people and dealing with them in a professional manner. Don’t forget that they are busy people who first and foremost have to earn a living. They don’t have time for the local Joe Public with his all singing all dancing digital SLR trying to undercutting them and producing rubbish and ultimately giving photography a bad name. I’m in the same boat as you are (except I’m on a life-raft as my boat sunk! :( ). Years in the Electronics and IT industry ending up in middle management, resulting in my technical skills falling behind, ending up in a non-IT environment and now, since the beginning of January, out of work. I could easily undercut the big name photographers working in the locality, but at what price to myself? I will only end up killing the proverbial golden goose for myself in the long run and will get a name as a cheap photographer producing cheap work. That’s not the market I want to be in, longer term.
I know your post wasn’t about pricing and undercutting as such, but in general, I think that’s one of the reasons professionals are wary of newcomers. Ultimately, they are protecting their own little patch. I can’t say I blame them, but I also believe very strongly that they are going about it the wrong way. If they are confident in their ability to produce new and innovative goods and services on a regular basis, they should have no problem sharing their knowledge with others. I was at a talk by Malcolm Mathieson last year and he was literally giving away a business idea that is making him a lot of money in Australia. One thing he said that was very telling – he said 90% of the people in that room would leave the room without making a single cent on this business because they didn’t have the drive to follow through.
I still have a lot to learn myself, especially about the business aspects. But I have no problem sharing what I do know with others as I don’t feel threatened by them. I have enough confidence in my own ability that I feel quite happy to give out information. And if someone uses information that I give them and it helps them become more successful than me, then fair play to them – it means it’s time for me to see why the succeeded where I didn’t.
Anyway, enough waffle. Yes the photographic industry in Ireland is very much “closed shop”. But keep at it and remain professional at all times and you’ll eventually crack that hard shell and make some inroads. Don’t let the “closed shop” mentality stop you from doing what you want to do and more importantly, recognise and realise what your own limitations are and what you need to do to overcome them.
I dont really see it as a closed shop. Just get in there and do it……dont give in. There are some in the industry who will cut you off. They are the same people who will cut me off and I’m donig it for 23 years now. There are donkeys and self proclaimed experts in every industry …… and there is often little difference between both…….LOL…….
Believe me …… there are many that will help and encourage you and I would hope that I would be counted in that number.
Gerry, I should have been more clear.
There are some gems in this business.
There is one in particular on this forum without whose
help I wouldn’t even know how to hold a camera.
He has actually just passed me my first full blown wedding.
The ones I mention are few however they can put some pretty
large road blocks in your way.You are right though, hard work overcomes everything
Graham,
Dont worry…..I know exactly what your talking about. Dont be put off by them as they will always be there and will still will still be doing it when your turning over 3million a year. It just shows that they have little else to occupy their time.Really quick story. When the gentleman in question handed me my first wedding
my first instinct was to try and get some exposure ( pardon teh pun ) to what a real
photographer does on the job. I rang around and asked some “goldenpages” people
could I tag along and just observe. I not joking when i say that the reaction was insane.
You would swear I was Bill Gates asking Steve Jobs could I walk around the Apple
R&D department. Luckily Dave from DB has some really good tips as part of one of his courses
that will help a great deal.I was just really pissed with some of the guys I sopke to. I know not everyone is the same but
there are some people who don’t do the business any favours. From being in IT I’m fairly thick skinned
so I’ll get over the initial humiliation of being laughed at over the phone.Perhaps the pros on this forum could come together and start a service whereby us newbies could tag
along on some shoots.later
Thorsten – you have your twin here.
I spent the last three years as an IT Manager and had everyone else doing the work.
After being forced into leaving my job I’m back in technical support and I feel like I back to square one.
Thats why I am so commited to making photography work and developing my skills.
From reading other simalar threads on this site and some others I reckon the reason why people get so
up in arms on subjects like this is becasue people tend to be a lot more passionate about photography or any other
main stream job.
Oh and I have no interest in damaging anyone else business. Having worked in the service industry I know that the way to gain respect in your
chosen field is not to undercut or disrespect your piers but rather offer a quality alternative.Anyway, thanks for the comments – wise words indeed
byrne5012 wrote:
I’m back in technical support and I feel like I back to square one.
I realise this is taking the thread off topic somewhat, but I’m even having difficulty going back to square one. It seems I’m either too old, overqualified or underqualified (depending on who you talk to!) :cry: Employers forget that people like you and I have a level of maturity that could be good for their business which younger sparks may not have! But hopefully this level of maturity will also earn us more respect when we do succeed in getting our respective photography businesses off the ground.
If you haven’t done so, I would encourage you to join the SWPP and attend their Dublin based talks which happen from time to time. Some of them are a waste of time but others are real gems – like the talk given by Mark Cleghorn on his business last year for example.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
