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Dublin photographers listen up
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Hi Ashley , I think it depends alot on what some people expect from having work published and I think it depends on what type of work that is going to be published there some really good guys on here that take really good landscapes and have their own sites soforth, Now I can understand a person like this giving away images to a free newspaper and getting it shown in full colour on the front page , and then driving the readers to their own site to showcase more of their work with the hope that they may well sell something or/and their artistic needs are meet after all we take photos for ourselves and for others to see. and it mayhelp fund a new lens or something
But on the other hand if its just a photo of joe bloggs plaaying for lets say ballymun utd against finglas tigers or what ever on sunday morning in the aul league 6 I really cant see where you can go from there , Surly you are better off aiming at the BIG papers ( if theres any left) especially if you are going to do it free anyways. I mean if its free sure start at the top and work your way down
And Cormac this is not a personal attack on because alot of papers are heading in this direction it wasnt so long ago a paper which is not free wanted to do away with photographers all together and get their journalists to carry cameras. – its about time that those interested in being newspaper photographers and those getting into the free work to be published realised they are on a slide to the bottom of things , it will end up that no newspaper photographer can feed his family or pay a bill becasue there will always the next generation of photographers that will work for nothing . these are just my opinions on the subject and I would love nothing more than one of the guys doing this to come back to this thread in say a year from now and tell me they are earning a decent living from being a paper snapper for one of the Big papers, but im not going to hold my breath on this one
Of course, Damiend, it’s not such good news for those who were hoping to make a living from this type of work.. but the writing has been on the wall for sometime now, that this is the way things are going to go.
Nothing lasts forever… so some photographers may need to start looking for some new cheese.
Who Moved My Cheese? is a simple parable that reveals profound truths… and is a story worth reading.
This is an interesting debate and caused me to think about where I stand on a similar matter.
I regularly take photographs of my kids and others playing gaelic football and hurling. I e-mail these to our club coaches, mentors and committee members – all of whom appreciate receiving them – indeed for some, opening their e-mails on a Monday morning is a much anticipated event!
Many of the pictures are then published on the club website and the club members get great enjoyment from them (I recently did a “candid coaches” series that generated quite a few laughs).
One of the commitete members is responsible for PR and he is very successful at getting many of my photographs published in a local (small) paper – typically every week and sometimes with a full-page colour spread.
Some points:
– The kids really enjoy seeing themselves in the paper.
– The club gets great publicity as a result of the pictures appearing in the newspaper.
– I get a kick out of seeing my pictures in print (unfortunatley I don’t get credietd).
– I get the opportunity to work on my hobby and spend time with my kids at teh same time.I like to think that my efforts are my contribution to the club (and payback for teh free time provided by the voluntary coaches) and to the wider society.
Two questions
1. If I did not take the pictures, would anybody from the newspaper do so? – Yes for the larger events, but probably not for the weekly training sessions and matches.
2. By providing photograph to the club (for use on the web site), am I taking work away from professional photographers? I don’t think so: there just wouldn’t be any pics of the kids.We could also ask whether the unpaid coaches are taking work away form professional coaches … Indeed, what about the unpaid members of organisations such as St. John’s ambulance, amateur soccer referees, etc.
To be fair, I haven’t questioned the “commercial substitution” potential of my actions – but now that I have, I don’t think that I will do any differently.
I believe – and this is also my interpretation of Cormac’s initial intentions – that these/similar photograps would not be taken/published if there was a commercial (payment/cost) aspect and the club (specifcially) and our community (in general) would not have benefited.
Hi BM i see nothing wrong with taking photos for the local club I do that myself and after i give to them the photos, they can do as they wish with them and some end up in the paper and in that way I help them , all the coaches to give up their time and my children benifit from their time I spend hrs all winter driving to away matches bringing kids here and there , but I think all the above is way different than been asked to submit images with 100 words or so.. if the local paper asked for some images of the club that i sometimes shoot for free as a thank you for what they do I would expect that paper to pay for those images after all they are not giving up anything other than space in their paper…. which by the way makes them look like they are community driven which helps them not the photographer as everyone who sees the photos think the paper did it name or no name on the photos.
I agree wholeheartly that the kids love it and the club tells them the kids they can have any image they want for free thats giving something back in my mind but i know others differ
have had a read of the whole thread and want to throw out my thoughts on the matter.
– We all have to start somewhere and everyone gets taken advantage of at some point….. yes… its great for amateurs/semi-pro/enthusiasts to see their images published (even if they dont get credited) – I have supplied some free newspapers with images in the past and have done jobs for regional papers and never been paid – despite agreeing a cheap price beforehand for a job.
I do think that the guy (Cormac) looking for images/copy is taking money from professionals – BUT is also trying to cut costs – especially with the cutbacks….I applaud you sir for trying to keep your own job.
(example of how he would be taking money from professionals – if the paper cant get “free” submissions they will be forced to use PR Images – which means the PR Photographer might get hired again, also if they dont use PR images they will be forced to hire a photographer to cover an event….or fill the paper with copy – which leads to less people picking it up and in the medium term leads to loss in advertising)THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX
Personally I think you (Cormac) could look at pimping his freelancers – place adverts in the paper saying they can hire a photographer for their event – ie. football game, birthday, retirement etc etc ….. photographer gets paid, newspaper gets images… win win situation. (assuming that Cormac pays his freelancers the money paid by clients – and the paper gets a cut to increase finances….if this is the case then I might be interested as there is a chance of earning a decent amount of money for a shift)PM me before you take this work, it looks very familiar to me..I worked for a paper such as this, be warned they owe me a fair few quid and after a few emails it looks like I will never get paid…Be Warned…
I did however get a job working for the national newspapers out of it but I’m still chasing money owed after 2 years.
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