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Is competition healthy?
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I’ve been into photography now for just over two years and up until this day, it’s all been about personal enjoyment. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the whole learning process. Going from absolute scratch, where I held a brand spanking new D70 in my hand and knowing nothing about cameras or photography, to where I am today has given me a great deal of satisfaction. Hopefully, I’ll continue to develop, continue to learn and continue to experience the same degree of gratification that I have felt to date. Personally, the satisfaction comes from two areas; technically, I’m a complete geek and just learning the technical aspects of photography has been tremendously interesting. I also get a great deal of pleasure when I take an image I like and then find it also has general appeal. My point being, so far I have been shooting for myself and only myself.
This month I’m starting with a camera club and from what I can determine, the camera club system in Ireland is based entirely around competition. Indeed, here in the forum our monthly assignments are competition based too. Now this might not be a new thing for a lot of seasoned camera club “pros” but it’s completely new to me. No longer am I aiming to take shots that I like and that I hope other people will like, I have to change my mindset so as I’m shooting content that will BEAT other peoples photos. Is this healthy? Does shooting for competition change the way you shoot? Is it for personal graticiation anymore or are you always thinking about your next competition winning shot? Does competition improve the level of photography in a club/forum or can it infact “damage” peoples confidence if they find they’re never up to par? Just curious about your thoughts on this..
Human nature, I s’pose.
You’re only here because your ancestors ran quicker or killed more efficiently or coped better in adversity.
Two fellas running from a tiger and one stops to change into running spikes. The other says, “That won’t make you faster than a tiger”.
First chap says, “I know that. Sure, I only need to be faster than you”.Having said that, my main misgiving would be the complete subjectivity of it. One man’s art is another man’s junk.
I never worked out how a fake Vermeer, that fooled all the Vermeer experts, could be almost worthless, while an original Vermeer could be almost priceless.
Ciaran – you’re not the first person to have expressed these views nor will you be the last. The way I see it, it’s down to personal choice. I like to think of myself as being competitive and therefore I enjoy competitions like this just as much as I enjoy photography. In the last club I was in I was often accused of being too competitive and was told in no uncertain terms that most members were there for the fun of photography. Clearly they didn’t recognise the fact that, for some people at least, photographic competitions formed part of the fun of photography. Instead they felt it took the fun out of photography. Why they felt like this, I have no idea – after all, nobody was forcing them to enter competitions! For me, competitions are also a way to work towards a brief, which is something I find enjoyable. Yes, I suppose I could set my own briefs and challenges, but somehow I never do get around to doing that.
Personally speaking I think even without specific “contest” there is always an element competition… even if its just with yourself; To master this aspect of photography or To get to grips more with that technique. The expansion of that to include other people will just bring to bear all of the different complications of dealing with people … arrogance, ego and sensitivity (and the list goes on ..)
Also I do agree that the camera clubs can be very competition driven … and I don’t consider that to be “healthy” if it is at the expense of members participation and development of their skills. On the other hand it can be a terriffic spur to improve and learn from others. I think it can be a healthy way to develop for a time… I’m sure people get bored with competitions after a while and do their own thing anyway and dip in now and then.
Oh … and it would suck if it were to result in you no longer taking photographs to please yourself… there is the aspect of choosing shots for competition which have general appeal … but its not healthy if if the competitive aspect altered your inspiration and motivation to shoot. I doubt very much that it would to be honest.
Anyway …. good thread to get me through my coffee break :)
Lorraine
Ciaran, some really good points there. I think it can and does inflict damage on people. Competitions in the Professional world are sometimes overdone also. In fact it is one of the most common complaints against Professional Photographers. you hear things like “he’s so slow”, “we spent the day taking photographs and missed the craic at our wedding”. This can be due to a few of us shooting to win competitions instead of getting on with the job we’re paid to do and to stop using couples as models for our own purposes.
“Does shooting for competition change the way you shoot?”
I think it does.“Is it for personal graticiation anymore or are you always thinking about your next competition winning shot?”
Many will be thinking about the next winning shot – a bit like the “table quiz breezers” – winning becomes everything“Does competition improve the level of photography in a club/forum or can it infact “damage” peoples confidence if they find they’re never up to par?”
It can do both. my main worry is that it can damage confidence and put off some very fine people.I would further say, Ciaran, that your work speaks for itself and I would feel that if you went down the road of shooting to please others and win competitions and drifted away from what your present mindset is at, then you would lose the personal satisfaction you now get from the tremendously high standard you are presently achieving…….which would be a real shame.
yeah thats interesting you say that,i suppose competition is all around us these days so therefore in order to keep things interseting and non-mundane we should always try and better ourselves in every capacity. Best thing about camera clubs is that its open to everybody no matter what or how many initals is after your name. However i have seen some very motivating material thats just dispenced by traditionalist because it did not fall into a catergory and such was defined as abstract. All in all its definetly worth joining because its the self fullfillment that others can relate or appreciate youre own work..
BenI think it is, absolutely. Its very much depends on the individual. Myself I just see it as a mechanism
for getting up off my ass and getting out to take photographs, i.e. its motivational.Whether I win or not, doesn’t really matter to me all that much. Its fun.
Life is a competition. Everything we do is competitve, if not with others but with ourselves.
Myself I compete with myself on every shot I take (must start posting shortly btw).The fact that there is a competition on the site here, is a positive introduction, fair play to Mark and SteveD
for starting it. Its a competition, surely it can be fun ? If competition and being competitive isn’t fun for people
then don’t get involved in competition here or anywhere. Noone is forcing anyone to.Ed…
ciaran wrote:
No longer am I aiming to take shots that I like and that I hope other people will like, I have to change my mindset so as I’m shooting content that will BEAT other peoples photos. Is this healthy?
This is upto the person and personality. Some pohotographers make the best shot if they do for competition but most (I think) don’t. If you are under pressure of comp., you can make basic misstakes what usually don’t.
I always do other way. I submit my already shot photos for competition and it works for me. Very rare I take photos for comp. only.
Other things for ‘new’ photographers. If they don’t have enough images in their library, they have to take photos for comp.
Last thing what I would like to say. Don’t take personally any bad results.Good one Ciaran.
The biggest problem, is it’s all about opinions. Frankly, I like what I like and althugh interested in C&C (welcome it), I don’t want to do anything that will be measured (and therefore in danger of being governed) by preset criteria. Individual style (which you have in your PJ and Urban landscape/people stuff) is about going away from the “Measured” norm. Before anyone says that there is a section in the scoring for “Creativity”, I think that misses the point I want to make. I’m waffling now.
The idea of trying to beat other people, I think can be destructive. I once asked a photographer how he gopt a certain effect, he wouldn’t tell me, thought it might make me better than him! Fer feck’s sake! I’m a fan of the sharing of knowledge and ideas and open discussion.
Long live forums!
Si
Great thread C,
Personally speaking and as a member of a camera club myself i find that competitions are an incentive to try out new
things and to improve on my composition and technical ability. To succeed in the competitions in my club i will have to ideally submit shots in three different categories. (For those who are not familiar with camera clubs, this is usually colour, black and white and slide film).I have to confess, one of the reasons behind buying my film camera was to do relatively well at the camera club comp. It was an area i hadn’t delved into and in a way i’m grateful that the competition gave me that push i needed. The last thing i wanted to happen was to fall short on points because i didn’t have the williness to learn an area of something i am so passionate about now.
One thing though that i would say about competitions it that i find that the judges are slightly biased and tend not to appreciate shots out of their scope so to speak – similarly, you submit a shot in their field of photography and it’s probably subjected to even more scrutiny. Pleasing the judge is an art in itself! Thorsten will agree with me here ;).
I would really advise anyone that hasn’t joined a local camera club to do so. It’s an excellent way to meet people that have
a genuine love for photography – nothing as bad as being in a house full of people that just don’t understand :D.Phew – thank goodness there’s a balance of opinions here. I was beginning to think that I was going to be on my own!
Ali wrote:
Pleasing the judge is an art in itself! Thorsten will agree with me here ;).
True, very true! In fact, I’ve won one or two competitions because I found out in advance who was going to judge and so I shot specifically for them! Did it compromise my own photography? Absolutely not – but it did make me try something I might not have, so as far as I can see it was all positive.
Do I care if I don’t win? Well, apart from the initial dissapointment, not really. What’s important is that I had a go at it, and made an attempt at winning, often times by trying something that I wouldn’t ordinarily do. I definitely think that competitions are great for getting you outside your comfort zone and trying something a little bit different. Certainly beats getting stuck in a rut and churning out the same old crud all the time, which can happen all to easily.
My borrowed motto, and I think it can be applied to most things……. ‘pressure produces diamonds!’
Is competition healthy? An interesting question, and one that deserves a thoughtful and measured response, so I?ll attempt to give my own tuppence worth (and for someone of my vintage that?s 2d as opposed to 2p ? I can actually remember getting 240 penny toffees for a pound).
In any dictionary of synonyms or thesaurus, the terms and definitions associated with competition are, for the most part, adversarial in nature and meaning. One-upmanship, combatant, opponent, challenger, rival, etc. The list goes on and on, and so the evolutionary analogy is easily made and readily subscribed to by modern culture. Dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, Richard Dawkins? Selfish Gene and the ?fact? that Creationism is bunk. But that of course is a purely objective view of the question, black and white with no middle ground.
B?la Bart?k in the Saturday Review of August 1962 wrote ?Competitions are for horses, not artists?. So perhaps the real answer to the question is a more environmental and subjective one. We must first remember where we are and ask ourselves honestly what exactly we are hoping to achieve in ?beating? our opponents. Do we intend for our rivals to suffer at our victories? In this environment, I very much doubt it. Each of us contribute to the forum, some contribute to various camera clubs, some are seasoned and experienced professionals, yet all of us share a passion for photography or we wouldn?t be here to begin with. I am not a member of a camera club and consider myself far too inexperienced, unskilled and temporally impoverished to take up such a membership, but I would imagine (correct me if I?m wrong) that the format is much the same as it is here – Discussions on photography, critique of members? work, etc. ? and each is involved with the sole intention of further learning and improvement. I doubt very much if those whose photographs never make the short-lists are any less enthusiastic about pursuing their passion. If anything, it should make them ever more eager to learn and improve.
So is competition healthy? In this particular field I would have to vote yes, and I should hope that the competition set on our forum evoke a lively participation, from beginners like myself with a ?ballistic? approach to photography (point, shoot as much a possible, see if there?s anything left alive afterwards) to technical experts to creative souls and all in between. Competition is healthy, as long as we remember the difference between destructive criticism and honest critique. As long as we?re all honest, the best photographs should win over and winning photographers applauded without restraint. I don’t imagine winning for a second, though nor could I ever imagine giving up trying.
Rob.
Ciaran
I dont think the camera club scene is based entirely around competition. Its generally only one night a month. Personally I think they make a great nights entertainment, and an opportunity to see other photographers work. Use it as means to get feedback on your images, but do not change your mindset on your approach to photography just to satisfy a judge or score points. Every picture you take should be for yourself and if someone else like it its a bonus.
One thing i would suggest is to use competition to build your portfolio of printed images. Produce two images, one for your portfolio and one for the competition. The competition entries are often hanled roughly and can get damaged, and the clubs often use members entries for inter clubs and open IPF competitions. Having one in your portfolio means you dont have to revisit the image again and can move forward with new work.
Best of luck with your entries.
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