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It’s a goal
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Mount Temple score against Saint Dominic’s in the Meath minor final. They went on to win 2-1.
Dave
The first would probably be the best of the 3 but were was the goalkeeper.
SodaThanks for commenting Soda. This series was taken as fast as my 350D would fire. I was using an 80-200mm lens and it was a dull day out by Dublin Airport. I think the complex is called ALSAA. The goal was more dramatic than it looks but not knowing anything about hockey I wonder where the defenders were. My daughter “invites” me to hockey matches and I usually take a couple of hundred shots per game and hand them over to her. Her time were beaten here but she was happy because they put up a good fight.
Jools, all the shots suffer very badly from softness. There’s no EXIF with any of the shots though, so it’s difficult to try and figure out what’s going wrong. How are you shooting these?
ciaran wrote:
Jools, all the shots suffer very badly from softness. There’s no EXIF with any of the shots though, so it’s difficult to try and figure out what’s going wrong. How are you shooting these?
Jools take this man up on the offer to help and we can all hopefuly learn a wee bit.
Ciaran it probably doesn’t look it, but one of the most helpful questions I have seen IMHO. Its a make you think sort of question.
SodaHow do I add EXIF to the shots? Can I export the data from the original files?
I have used an addon for Firefox to get these details.
#1
Exif IFD0* Camera Make = Canon
* Camera Model = Canon EOS 350D DIGITAL
* Picture Orientation = normal (1)
* X-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* Y-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Last Modified Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* White Point Chromaticity = 313/1000,329/1000 = 0.313, 0.329,
* Primary Chromaticities = 64/100,33/100,21/100,71/100,15/100,6/100 = 0.64, 0.33, 0.21, 0.71, 0.15, 0.06,
* Y/Cb/Cr Coefficients = 299/1000,587/1000,114/1000 = 0.299, 0.587, 0.114,
* Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = co-sited / datum point (2)Exif Sub IFD
* Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/200 second = 0.00500 second
* Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 56/10 = F5.60
* Exposure Program = normal program (2)
* ISO Speed Ratings = 400
* Exif Version = 0221
* Original Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* Digitization Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
* Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 500948/65536
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/200.00 second
* Aperture Value (APEX) = 325770/65536
Aperture = F5.60
* Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/2 = 0.00
* Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
* Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
* Focal Length = 200/1 mm = 200.00 mm
* Maker Note =
* User Comment (Hex) =
User Comment Character Code = not defined
* FlashPix Version = 0100
* Color Space = 65535
* Image Width = 3456
* Image Height = 2304
* Focal Plane X-Resolution = 3456000/874 = 3954.23
* Focal Plane Y-Resolution = 2304000/582 = 3958.76
* Focal Plane X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
* Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
* White Balance = auto (0)
* Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
* Unknown tag: Tagnum = 0xa500 ===> data = 22/10Exif IFD1
* Compression = JPEG compression (6)
* X-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* Y-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Offset to the start byte (SOI) of JPEG compressed thumbnail data = 9716
* JPEG Interchange Format Length = 5351Exif Interoperability IFD
* Interoperability Index = R03
* Interoperability Version = 0100#2
Exif IFD0* Camera Make = Canon
* Camera Model = Canon EOS 350D DIGITAL
* Picture Orientation = normal (1)
* X-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* Y-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Last Modified Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* White Point Chromaticity = 313/1000,329/1000 = 0.313, 0.329,
* Primary Chromaticities = 64/100,33/100,21/100,71/100,15/100,6/100 = 0.64, 0.33, 0.21, 0.71, 0.15, 0.06,
* Y/Cb/Cr Coefficients = 299/1000,587/1000,114/1000 = 0.299, 0.587, 0.114,
* Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = co-sited / datum point (2)Exif Sub IFD
* Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/200 second = 0.00500 second
* Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 56/10 = F5.60
* Exposure Program = normal program (2)
* ISO Speed Ratings = 400
* Exif Version = 0221
* Original Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* Digitization Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
* Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 500948/65536
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/200.00 second
* Aperture Value (APEX) = 325770/65536
Aperture = F5.60
* Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/2 = 0.00
* Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
* Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
* Focal Length = 200/1 mm = 200.00 mm
* Maker Note =#3
Exif IFD0* Camera Make = Canon
* Camera Model = Canon EOS 350D DIGITAL
* Picture Orientation = normal (1)
* X-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* Y-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Last Modified Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* White Point Chromaticity = 313/1000,329/1000 = 0.313, 0.329,
* Primary Chromaticities = 64/100,33/100,21/100,71/100,15/100,6/100 = 0.64, 0.33, 0.21, 0.71, 0.15, 0.06,
* Y/Cb/Cr Coefficients = 299/1000,587/1000,114/1000 = 0.299, 0.587, 0.114,
* Y/Cb/Cr Positioning (Subsampling) = co-sited / datum point (2)Exif Sub IFD
* Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/125 second = 0.00800 second
* Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 56/10 = F5.60
* Exposure Program = normal program (2)
* ISO Speed Ratings = 400
* Exif Version = 0221
* Original Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* Digitization Date/Time = 2007:03:28 09:23:09
* Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
* Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 456510/65536
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/125.00 second
* Aperture Value (APEX) = 325770/65536
Aperture = F5.60
* Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/2 = 0.00
* Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
* Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
* Focal Length = 200/1 mm = 200.00 mm
User Comment Character Code = not defined
* FlashPix Version = 0100
* Color Space = 65535
* Image Width = 3456
* Image Height = 2304
* Focal Plane X-Resolution = 3456000/874 = 3954.23
* Focal Plane Y-Resolution = 2304000/582 = 3958.76
* Focal Plane X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
* Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
* White Balance = auto (0)
* Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
* Unknown tag: Tagnum = 0xa500 ===> data = 22/10Exif IFD1
* Compression = JPEG compression (6)
* X-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* Y-Resolution = 72/1 = 72.00
* X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Offset to the start byte (SOI) of JPEG compressed thumbnail data = 9716
* JPEG Interchange Format Length = 6575Exif Interoperability IFD
* Interoperability Index = R03
* Interoperability Version = 0100joolsveer wrote:
How do I add EXIF to the shots? Can I export the data from the original files?
Using Photoshops “Save for web” will strip the EXIF. If you just save it normally as a JPG under the File menu,
your images will retain their EXIF. I’m not aware of any editors which will allow you add EXIF information back into
an image, although I’m sure there must be one. Looking through your EXIF’s there are a few things which may be the
cause of or contributor to the softness.All the shots seem to be shot at 200mm. I know you said this is the 80-200mm lens, but not which make/model.
My guess is that since the max aperture was 5.6 it’s a reasonably cheap low end lens? Unfortunately like everything
in this world, we get what we pay for and cheaper optics just don’t have the same quality or performance as higher end
alternatives. For example a Canon 70-200mm f2.8 USM IS costs ?2400 where as you can also pick up a Canon 70-300mm
entry level zoom over ?2000 less :shock: If you do buy the lower end lenses, one thing to be aware of is that they’re softer
in general but softer again at the extreme ends of the zooms. So shooting them all at 200mm has probably meant you’re
not really operating in the sweet spot of the lens and have some loss in sharpness because of it.Your shutter speed seems to be 1/200 for the shots. Using the rule of thumb for camera shake of having a shutter speed as
being at least 1/focal length, then you’re coming in bang on the money. But what you’re not factoring in here is the fact that
you’re using a cropped sensor. So in reality, you should be using at least 1/(focal length * 1.5) which equates to at least 1/300.
Note also that this is a minium, for sharpness you’d ideally want faster shutter speeds again, or else use a tripod/monopod to
help with camera shake.After that, my guess is there’s some softness again purely due to the shots being out of focus. I’m not sports shooter, but with
subjects moving so quickly it can be difficult for your camera and lens to keep up with the action. The times I have tried in the
past has led to results which are very hit and miss. One thing you could try is prefocusing on an area and wait for the action to
happen. This will definitely lead to sharper results but the disadvantage is that the action may never end up in the frame and you
never get to see the game. Again a higher quality lens will typically be quicker to attain focus.As I said, I’m no sports shooter, but I’d wonder is a shutter speed of 1/200 be enough to freeze motion in fast moving subjects?
I think things like the ball and hockey sticks are OK to be blurred in shots like this, but it seems there is some subject movement
in these shots, which is again contributing to the overall softness. Increasing the shutter speed will help here too as well as helping
out on reducing camera shake. If you want to go this slow, have you ever considered panning?Finally, you need to be aware of your DOF. With the telephoto, having 3 objects/people in the frame which are a a distance apart
will ultimately lead to one or all of them being out of focus. If your goal is to isolate one girl (for example the first shot, the main girl
is isolated in comparison to the goalie) this can work well. But if you’re including more people in the frame in an attempt to catch lots
of action, you’d need to stop the lens down a bit.Hope this helps.
Not sure I can add much to Ciaran’s already detailed post here. Some great advice there – plenty of food for thought!
Tim
Thanks for the constructive advice Ciaran.
It is a Canon 80 to 200mm zoom lens that was used and apart from shooting hockey games that my daughter plays in I rarely use it. I would find it hard to justify the expense of a Canon pro lens in this focal length. I was using a monopod to reduce camera shake and the ISO was set to 400. Given the dull day I should perhaps have set it to 800 or even 1600 but I did not want to increase the grain. The shots are heavily cropped because I was on the centre line of the pitch to try to cover both goal areas equally.
I have very little experience of taking sports shots (apart from some seven or eight hockey matches over the last year or so) but I would agree that for this kind of work I would need a longer lens. If I was to buy one it would also be from a budget range though – maybe a Sigma rather than a Canon.
As nice as it would be to have a longer reach, I think going to 200mm from 300mm would compound your problems not fix them.
The issues you’re having at 200mm will only increase as you move to 300mm.As for the ISO vs grain problem, I can totally sympathise. But that said, I think ISO vs grain should only become a trade off when
you’re at least hitting the minimum shutter speeds required. It isn’t nice to have grainy shots, but for me, I’d rather a bit of grain in
a well exposed shot that is sharp, than no grain in a shot which is soft and out of focus.Anyway, I hope this thread is of some use to others? One of the first things that a lot of people buy after their initial purchase of an
SLR is a telephoto lens of some sort. I think this thread is a good example of showing that whilst it’s nice to have a lens that has
a lot more reach, unless you’re handling and use of the lens is bang on the money, the shots will suffer because of it. You’d nearly
be better off hiring a pro end lens for the day than purchasing something that just won’t deliver on most occassions.Sound advice there Ciaran. Dave McKane from Digital Beginners was good enough
to explain the whole focal length/shutter speed thing to me and it completely changed
the quality of my shots for the better. While I’d read about it before, I’d never taken
into account the crop factor of my camera and multiplied accordingly to find a safe
minimum. It might be nice if someone like, let’s say yourself for instance, were to
post a sticky somewhere explaining the theory and practice of ‘sharp’ shooting for
the myriad beginners out there struggling with their first steps on manual. Hint hint.Rob.
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