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Martin wrote:
Yes 300 to 400 is not much but if I was starting out trying to get a portfolio together to become a wedding photographer I would take every opportunity I could get. Even if it is working for chicken feed for the first few months and basically being used. Its an opportunity to learn the ropes…
I would think long term, your building a portfolio and getting experience that will hopefully up your level. When you do get your first well paid job then hopefully this work experience will stand to you and will help get more well paid work…
M
Wedding photography is not my bag, but I read some advice that resounded with me a while back; namely that of not selling yourself cheaply – either do it for free, or charge your full rate, but never cheaply. If doing it for free, treat it as pro-bono, and don’t lower your standards.
Expectations, and the management of them are often the key aspect of shooting weddings one hears again and again, with problems arising when wedding parties expect to get a €3000 package for €300. Tread lightly, would be my advice.
Fintan’s advice is apt too; there is a recession on, but understand your market, target them effectively, and you could make a lot of money!
Re: portfolio work, if I was building a wedding portfolio myself, I would try to assist on as many weddings as I could until I felt comfortable being the sole shooter, and then a number of weddings for free until I had enough material for a solid portfolio.
Just my 2c,
Damien
Martin wrote:
Yes 300 to 400 is not much but if I was starting out trying to get a portfolio together to become a wedding photographer I would take every opportunity I could get. Even if it is working for chicken feed for the first few months and basically being used. Its an opportunity to learn the ropes…
Martin, I’m not a wedding photographer (though I have a HUGE respect for them), but if I was starting out in that field/business and I had to think about a long term strategy, I would consider the following before accepting the job:
[generic “you” :)]
1) if you get paid 300€ and your job turns out to be amazing, you’re basically giving your work a value which is way below the average.
2) never underestimate the power of word of mouth: the married couple are so happy about the pictures you took that they recommend you to all the people who were at the wedding, and when you break the news about the price being higher than 300€, they obviously don’t understand why. So you either turn the new gigs down, or you start shooting weddings for 300€, seriously jeopardizing your long term strategy and potentially pissing all the local wedding photography community off.
3) if you’re doing it in order to build your portfolio, then do it for free, clearly explaining the situation to the couple. You’ll give them the best pictures you can make, the whole “basic” package (including the contract – which you’d need anyway – , but also the same post-production hours you would spend on a 3000€ wedding): that way you’re investing in yourself, not devaluing your work and being extremely clear about why you’re doing it.damien.murphy wrote:
Wedding photography is not my bag, but I read some advice that resounded with me a while back; namely that of not selling yourself cheaply – either do it for free, or charge your full rate, but never cheaply. If doing it for free, treat it as pro-bono, and don’t lower your standards.
pretty much my point, Damien, I guess I’ve used more words than necessary :)
edit: If I was in the same situation, i.e. not having a high photography budget for my wedding, I would spend the same amount of money, buy as many disposable cameras I could get, give them to a few friends and relatives, and collect them at the end of the day…could be cool :)
nfl-fan wrote:
Can you imagine the night before your wedding hoping for good weather and praying that a geek with a good camera shows up.
The couple could ask the priest to call out over the mic after the ceremony –
“Any geeks with good cameras please report to the alter, God has called upon your assistance. Preferably four eyed and spotty. Thank you”.
I would suggest getting the pro for the church bit ;) and the formal pictures, I was that geek twice over christmas, I had my camera and fired of a few shots, there are some results on my flickr photostream.
I may be out of line here but, am I mistaken in thinking that this is a website created for people who are interested in Photography?? so, where would someone go to find someone who might be able to help with getting a Wedding Album done cheaply in these hard times??
The guy simply asked a question, are you interested in the job, yes or no. If you are insulted by the offer, or consider it a waste of your time and skills then leave it alone, don’t bother to reply or degridate the very notion that someone should dare to ask.
If it’s not for you then fine, but just remember, “everyone had to start somewhere”, if someone is interested then let the couple decide whether or not they are happy, by having a look at some of his work. If they don’t like it, fine if they do, then “they” are the ones who chose him!!
chrisa380 wrote:
I may be out of line here but, am I mistaken in thinking that this is a website created for people who are interested in Photography?? so, where would someone go to find someone who might be able to help with getting a Wedding Album done cheaply in these hard times??
The guy simply asked a question, are you interested in the job, yes or no. If you are insulted by the offer, or consider it a waste of your time and skills then leave it alone, don’t bother to reply or degridate the very notion that someone should dare to ask.
If it’s not for you then fine, but just remember, “everyone had to start somewhere”, if someone is interested then let the couple decide whether or not they are happy, by having a look at some of his work. If they don’t like it, fine if they do, then “they” are the ones who chose him!!
you’re not out of line
people just have too much advice to give good or bad
I started like this and gave it 120% and was pleased for it for giving me a ‘go’francesco wrote:
….. and when you break the news about the price being higher than 300€, they obviously don’t understand why. So you either turn the new gigs down, or you start shooting weddings for 300€, seriously jeopardizing your long term strategy and potentially pissing all the local wedding photography community off…..
Its all about managing the clients expectations at the start. You make it clear your doing this to help try to get a portfolio together. In the future as you get experience you will be asking for more than 300 euro, you make this clear to them :idea:
francesco wrote:
….if you’re doing it in order to build your portfolio, then do it for free….
Why do it for free, if there is 300 euro on offer take it
damien.murphy wrote:
namely that of not selling yourself cheaply – either do it for free, or charge your full rate
I agree charge full rate, give them 300 euros worth… which may be 30 lose pictures with basic processing. There not expecting as Fintan said “The couple obviously know they aren’t going to get Denis Reggie for the money they are offering, so forget the 3 days processing and all the other stuff“
Over and out
MHei!
I’m kinda new to higher photography and have been into taking pictures (with basic digital cameras) for a long time but only as a hobby thing..I wouldn’t care how much money I’d make out of it! I would be doing what I like!! :)Anyway..ye all (exaggerated) seem quite “bitchy” about it. The man said in the first post that it’d suit a student or someone who’d do it for that money, then why not. Why would you dissect it with such negativity? I bet there are people out there, who see €300 as big money for little work (doesn’t have to be 3days processing!). And why does it matter SO much what the couple wants? Aren’t you a Professional Photographer who can take ANY kind of pictures?
The only thing I would be worried about is the fact that how good of a quality them pictures would have and if the couple would like them afterwards. Cos even if you’re into photography, doesn’t mean you have “the eye”, especially for a wedding.. Yet again, I bet there would be loads of other people at the wedding with their cameras too, you’d get Some pictures :D
I agree with Chrisa380. Less hostility would be nice :)
Why do it for free, if there is 300 euro on offer take it
Martin, I understand it may sound strange, but it is exactly because of what Damien was referring to, i.e. selling yourself cheaply. IMHO, in a situation like this and if you (same generic “you” as before) are a newcomer/student and trying hard to be a wedding photographer, 300€ are a good amount of money for the day, but I’m not so sure that it would be part of a wise long-term strategy.
I agree charge full rate, give them 300 euros worth… which may be 30 lose pictures with basic processing. There not expecting as Fintan said “The couple obviously know they aren’t going to get Denis Reggie for the money they are offering, so forget the 3 days processing and all the other stuff“
I personally believe in over-delivering and giving the best possible pictures, no matter how much they pay me. Giving them 30 loose pictures with minimal post-production, imho, means lowering your standards.
I found this some time ago and there’s some interesting stuff about this subject (check the links at the end of the article, too).
300€ are a good amount of money for the day, but I’m not so sure that it would be part of a wise long-term strategy
So what is a student supposed to do then… charge the same as the local pro who has 20 years of experience?
Surely someone looking to get their foot in the door who has a very limited amount of experience, if any, should be charging lower prices?
I fully agree with what Martin has said… €300 for someone looking to build a portfolio to supply a limited number of pictures with basic post processing should be a win/win scenario.
I’m not sure if a student or anyone new looking to build up a portfolio is really going to attract much business if they’re adamant that they should charge full whack… because they simply don’t have the reputation/experience/portfolio to back it up.
How far into the long term can a person look if they don’t have two feet cemented in the short term?
nfl-fan wrote:
So what is a student supposed to do then… charge the same as the local pro who has 20 years of experience?
if he/she can deliver pictures that are as good as the ones taken by a photographer who’s been in the business for 20 years, can provide a professional service with the right attitude, and most importantly he/she thinks his/her work is worth the same, then yes, he/she should charge the same. Otherwise he/she should work on getting better pictures by assisting another, more experienced photographer and work on his/her portfolio, for free, trying to deliver the best possible pictures and service, just like he/she would on a regular wedding shoot.
Surely someone looking to get their foot in the door who has a very limited amount of experience, if any, should be charging lower prices?
..and then be known as the almost-professional who takes almost-good pictures for cheap?
Are we talking about easy money in the short run or long term strategy to establish a successful business?I fully agree with what Martin has said… €300 for someone looking to build a portfolio to supply a limited number of pictures with basic post processing should be a win/win scenario.
As I wrote before, I think that in no situation you should ever lower your standards, whether you’re working for free or on a 30.000€ advertising gig. If you spend 3 days in post for a high paying job, I think you should do the same when you’re working for free (if the goal is to work for yourself, for your portfolio or for any other reason that makes it worth), with the only exception being that those three days (or more) shouldn’t take some precious time away from another, better paying, job.
If you go on a job thinking “they’re paying me 300€, so the quality of my job will reflect that”, how in the world are you going to use those pictures in your portfolio?Folks,
People are more than welcome to post up job offers here on the site regardless of as in this case the budget.
As some of you said, it’ll suit some and not others. If you have no interest in accepting the job, then perhaps its
best to leave the thread to those who wish to do so.It might be best to have a general discussions on the merits of accepting low budget jobs in a thread of its
own in the General Photography Q+A forum (or here in the Photography Business forum) and leave Mark’s thread
for the purpose he intended it to be.Thanks
Hi,
Is this job still on offer?
I am based in Wicklow, and willing to travel.
I am currently starting a photography business and in the process of building a wedding portfolio.
This job sounds like a good oportunity as one of the posts said ‘it’s a chance to build ones portfolio, and not a loss’.
Thanks, ccrennan
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