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Just been offered a big photo job
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It’s poker. Look ’em in the eyes and figure out how much they’re prepared
to pay to see your cards. Lose your nerve, and they’ve got you by the short and curlies.I know that it’s wrong to undersell yourself, and you’ll never do photography for a living
if you always charge too little, but it takes bottle to value yourself correctly. Ashley’s
right, of course, but he doesn’t have another job (and he probably doesn’t like losing
trade to people who have). Personally, I’d start at a high (read ‘realistic’) price, and be
prepared to ski downhill from there. Skiing uphill is out of the question – if they snap your
arm off at £2000, negotiating £3000 will just not happen.Another of Ashley’s points is soooo true: if you end up feeling that you did three, four or five
grands’ worth of work, and you know you’re coming out with £1000, you’ll resent every last minute
of it, and you won’t give the best of yourself. That way you let yourself down and you let them down.Also don’t underestimate the amount of work involved in this.
Whilst, you’ve having cracking stuff on your site, I doubt you could go out tomorrow with your product and be 100% certain of getting a similar shot in any of your locations. The weather, light, you, all come into it.
Going 4 or maybe 5 times to 10 locations will involve considerable time, effort and expense.
T.
RGH_Photography wrote:
…a link posted about image usage rights and what to charge..
Ricky
I would be very interested in seeing the link which told you ‘what to charge‘.The AOP gives it’s members guidelines, as to how one should go about putting a value on one’s images, however, they do not tell you what to charge.
Ashley wrote:
Doing business is like playing a game of Porker at times…
Yeah. Get your nose in the trough, or you risk being yesterday’s bacon.
The link was indeed guidelines i just worded my post wrong. But still they were 10 times what i could of done it for. All i am saying is you cant use a rule of thumb for image usage or to quote an individual commision !
PeteTheBloke wrote:
It’s poker….
Personally, I’d start at a high (read ‘realistic’) price, and be
prepared to ski downhill from there. Skiing uphill is out of the question – if they snap your
arm off at £2000, negotiating £3000 will just not happen…There is another way Pete – you may just need to think outside of the box a bit here.
The Base Usage Rate pricing system.
RGH_Photography wrote:
But still they were 10 times what i could of done it for.
Sounds like you totally over priced the job then – that’s all.
All i am saying is you cant use a rule of thumb for image usage or to quote an individual commision !
Please give us an example, so as we can fully understand where you are coming from here.
Your production costs.
Number of images.
Media use / Period of use / Territory.Ashley speaks wise words.
I’ve been self-employed for most of my working life and you have no idea how liberating it is
when you wake up to the real world and charge a proper price. You have to make a choice
between doing it as a hobby and doing it as a job. If you do it as a hobby, what’s the point in
charging anything at all? If I write a snippet of code (I’m a programmer) that may be useful
in the “community”, I have no probs putting it online so others can re-use it. If I write someone
an application that makes or saves them money, I want paying for it. I’ve invested countless
hours of time learning how to do my job; I’ve spent thousands on equipment and books; I’ve
done stuff for days that most people couldn’t or wouldn’t stick at for 3 minutes; I am a
commodity and if someone wants to make use of me they have to cough up the readies.I know it’s a tough one, because you’d probably take the pics for a tenner as long as they
promised to use them, but it’s much better for your self-respect in the long run if you
charge properly. And once both parties agree a price, everyone goes home with a goldfish
provided you deliver the goods.When you were a teeny-bopper, did you look for the ugliest girl at the party, or the prettiest?
When you were a teeny-bopper, did you look for the ugliest girl at the party, or the prettiest?
I guess that depends on how much drink was taken :wink:
Ashley wrote:
RGH_Photography wrote:
But still they were 10 times what i could of done it for.
Sounds like you totally over priced the job then – that’s all.
All i am saying is you cant use a rule of thumb for image usage or to quote an individual commision !
Please give us an example, so as we can fully understand where you are coming from here.
Your production costs.
Number of images.
Media use / Period of use / Territory.If you had of read the post i put in a quote of 50/60% less what the guide lines and advice of the forum members were! But luckly my mate has been seeing a girl that works for the company and i now know thier exact budget :) so next year i will get the work.
I have been following this with interest and some surprise.
Out of the blue I find myself in a similar situation as Brian.
Through a friend, who is now staying out of it, I have been contacted by a company to take landscape shots relating to their products.
This would be at two, possibly three locations around the country.
They are looking for 6 or 7 good quality landscape images per location for use invarious media over a couple of years.I think without this thread I would have completely under priced myself.
Only reading this I started to realise the implications and possible amount of work I might be getting myself into.
This being landscape work I can’t really say how long it would take me to deliver a product me and the client would be happy with.
I even got the AOP book, which is alot to take in and ALL IN ENGLISH! … but some good advice in thereBut at the end of the day I still have only the vaguest idea of the costs involved for me and thus my BUR…
And no idea how to charge. Per day? Per hour? Per image? One bulk sum?Please, share your thought with me (or at least the part that’s relating to this subject).
Also, I’d be interested to hear what conclusions Brian has reached regaring this.Madra Rua wrote:
But at the end of the day I still have only the vaguest idea of the costs involved for me and thus my BUR…
And no idea how to charge. Per day? Per hour? Per image? One bulk sum?You charge them for what they are getting from you, which is images for them to use.
So your fee is for the use of the images which you produce & provide them with.
Thanks Ashley, I really appreciate you taking the time in this and other threads to explain this stuff.
Ashley wrote:
It took me many years to get my head around all of this – so if it doesn’t make total sense right now, give it some time to sink in :)
I’m glad I’m not the only one, Ashley. I always knew all the common-sense,
cost-accounting techniques, but never got around to applying them to my own business.
I think all self-employed people who survive in business go through a process
of “seeing the light” at some stage.The frustrating thing, once you’ve wised up, is being undercut by someone who – you know for sure –
cannot possibly do the job at the price he/she quoted. The compensation is that
you won’t be bidding against him for long because he’ll be gone unless he starts pricing
correctly.
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