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jb7 wrote:
I’m a little concerned that the photographer has not responded, my intention was to elicit a debate, not to alienate.
Maybe you’ve scared him away……. :lol:
I suspect he’s doing what we should be doing……out taking photos rather than talking shite on here all day. :wink:
He may not even be aware of this discussion yet as it is only a day old
brandyman wrote:
[I suspect he’s doing what we should be doing……out taking photos rather than talking shite on here all day. :wink:
:lol: :lol: 8) :lol: :lol:
No, you haven?t scared me away & yes I have been watching this thread closely.
My initial reaction to Joseph?s first post was to reply immediately, but I decided to wait and see if it was a lone opinion or if others agreed. I am glad I waited as the debate just started to unfold.
At first I felt very isolated by Josephs comments and very angry, however as others posted their opinions I started to calm down a bit.
I think the debate has highlighted two issues that we could learn a lesson from.
The image
When a photographer posts a photograph here for C & C they must expect all shades of opinion. Some may not be favorable, and indeed the exercise would be pointless if it was always praise. But even if the comments are not favorable it can be tremendously useful for future improvement if it is given in the right way and with the right spirit.The photographer.
I don?t think that it is acceptable to judge the photographer in the way it has been done here, unless you know a lot more about that person, and that is not possible on an anonymous forum like this one. I was initially quite offended by Joseph?s comments because he made massive assumptions about me and my motives, and to suggest that I kept my distance because of a smell is particularly hurtful. The experiences we encounter as we go through life have an impact on how we view things and perhaps Joseph had reasons of his own, as to why he reacted so strongly to this picture. Joseph also assumed that this person was miserable, I am not sure that he was, he seemed to me to be completely engrossed in what he was doing, and content with his surroundings at that time. I would also defend the title of the photograph as I believe that everything that man processed was in that trolley and as Brandyman has already said it probably goes every where with him.I am just at the start of my photographic journey, and at present I am more interested in perfecting my technique and skills with things such as exposure, focus etc. I am sure as I travel along this road I will be able to focus on other things such as communication. I take Ciarans and Brandymans comments on board and these will be of value to me in the future.
Now that I have calmed down a bit and reflected on Josephs remarks I will also find some of them useful as well. The third project on the course I am doing is photo journalism. The link provided by Joseph to the image taken by Dorothea Lange was interesting and informative. Just as I was turning the page in my library book last night what should appear but the very same image, I would not have known anything about the image had Joseph not brought it to my attention.
Brandy mans point is also well made. It?s not always as easy to get our feelings across in words as it is with speech, and being able to talk directly to each other.
Thank you to everyone that contributed to the debate, it was viewed by a large number of people and it?s just a pity that more people didn?t get involved. I look forward to communicating with you all in the future.
?All criticism is good as long as they spell your name right?
Well done on a considered and temperate response! When you start out it is very easy to get put off by criticism and I personally was very aware of that possibility in this case, because I have been there – hence my contribution …… :lol:
I think you can see the difference between critique of the photograph and critique of the photographer – there can be a fine line sometimes, but I think we should try to stick to the former.Dont be put off – I think you understand that people dont intend to offend, and by and large they are trying to assist as best they can.
Ross
semiotics are far more immediate, and quicker to provoke a reaction than words, which is why photography is such an effective tool of mass communication. We are exposed to so many images from such an early age that we learn to process them without a second thought.
However, becoming fluent in speaking this language is far more difficult, as we all should know by now. It is easy for ambiguities to creep in, for messages to be sent which we may not be aware of at all.
we perform a multiple role here, not only are we photographers, but also publishers, curators, sub-headline writers; all difficult and sophisticated disciplines, and open to interpretation or misinterpretation every step of the way. I think its disingenuous to try to separate a photographer from a photograph, especially in a photography forum, for photographers. A photograph may win a competition, but its the photographer who gets the prize. Soon there will be new privacy laws which may directly affect some of us; if the law is broken the photographer (or publisher) will end up in court as well as the photograph.
I’m not suggesting that any laws have been broken here, and I’m sorry that wjklewis’s post has been hijacked, but it has provoked a debate which, in the long run, is probably more important than just an anodyne comment. Thank you for your measured response, and maybe a bit of robust discussion is not such a bad thing.
Interesting thread!
Hmm, can we judge the photographer from the photographs they take? I don’t know the answer to that one.
Anyway, on this particular picture, I’d tend to side with Joseph. Yes, I can easily understand why many photographers might regard a homeless person as a potential subject. At first glance such a picture might seem to have a kind of gritty, social commentary feel about it, even more so when converted to black and white.
So why my unease? Actually, I find it difficult to articulate an exact reason. Perhaps it just feels too much like an invasion of privacy. Remember, these people have no homes so sitting on the street reading is maybe a bit like you or I sitting at home on our sofas reading the newspaper. How would we feel if someone came along with a camera and took a shot of us through our window?
I can’t even agree with Ciaran’s policy of giving them a couple of quid in return for a picture. I remember reading about a court case a couple of years ago where someone had paid tramps, crack addicts etc to fight each other so he could shoot a series of grisly ‘shock’ video films. The fights were really vicious and the guy making the videos was posting them on the web for ‘entertainment’ (he might have actually set up a pay-site). It turned out that the tramps were so desperate for money they were prepared to do this for next to nothing – and to sign consent forms so the guy shooting the footage could sell it. The videos were brutal – I remember the report mentioned one tramp had even set his hair on fire for money and others had sustained broken limbs. Personally I think if you want to give homeless people money for a meal or whatever you really have to do so with no strings attached.
I love street photography and regularly take pictures of people when out and about. In fact, I’m always surprised by the number of people who come up and ask to have their picture taken! So I have no concerns about taking shots of ordinary people in public places. But there’s something that makes me feel a little uncomfortable about shooting someone who is down-and-out. Maybe it’s also partly because many of them will have alcohol problems, mental problems or perhaps have been victims of abuse. There are exceptions of course, but I suspect the majority tend to be a lot more vulnerable than the average person.
However, as I mentioned at the beginning, I also understand why photographers might regard the homeless as a subject and am not in any way suggesting any intent to take unfair advantage. The above is just my own view – how I feel – and naturally I wouldn’t expect everyone to agree!
I think perhaps a new thread should be started to discuss some of the ethical type questions been raised here.
I can move any posts into that new thread also.
Mark
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