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Money, money, money…
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As I mentioned in another thread I’ve been taking photos at a locally organised event this year. I shoot the photos for a full day on the Saturday, then Sunday I spend selecting the photos, preparing them for the web and uploading them to a photo sales system. The photo sales system has been specifically designed for this type of event and allows competitors to log on and purchase their photos either low res (1000px for web use) or high res (2000px for printing). The photos are then sent to the competitors electronically.
The first few rounds went well, I didn’t make a great amount of profit due to a slump in the number of competitors, but I turned over enough to cover my expenses and earn a small amount on top of this. I did however hear coming up to the most recent event that some of the competitors aren’t happy paying for the photos, and believe that a) they are too expensive b) they have already paid to enter the race and this should cover photos. I’ve had no sales from the most recent round, but I did receive one e-mail from a competitor who told me that my photos were too expensive but he would offer me what I would consider to be an inappropriately low amount.
I’ve checked the costing of photos at similar events both locally and throughout the UK and my prices are perfectly competitive. How would you go about responding to someone who e-mailed you questioning your pricing? Would you agree that its better to stick to your pricing which you believe is fully justified and reasonable and make zero sales or would you drop your price and practically give the photos away just to make a few quid? Is it just a sign of the times and people not putting a value on a photo, and if so how do you get around this issue?
I’d be interested to hear some opinions on this, thanks :)
Sometimes, even the most logical arguement falls on deaf ears. Even if you detail for such customers, the time it takes, and the profit you make, they woud still not understand.
I have spent thousands on equipment and courses, hundreds of man hours with camera shooting and all so I can spend another 2 or 3 days of my time to sell them a photo for €10 ?. I do some event photography and sports photography and I hear this a lot
How much are you charging per shot though?
suspectmonkey wrote:
a) they are too expensive
“What? How dare you charge *x amount of money* for a picture?!?! Next time I’ll bring my *friend/relative/dog* and have them take pictures for free!!!” :D
Typical, I’m afraid. If the price is fine in your opinion, then it’s fine, period.
If they insist in saying the price is too high, you can direct them to websites that clearly show your prices are in fact competitive (or you could ask them if they argue every time they pay for a movie ticket, a book, or when they call a plumber, etc).suspectmonkey wrote:
b) they have already paid to enter the race and this should cover photos
the key word is “should”: in the compettition rules and/or information there should be something about pictures taken at the event being excluded from the entering fee.
If there isn’t anything explicitly stated, then they may have a point, but then again it’s not your fault, so they should clear that out with the people who organized the event.[/i]You can spend lots of money of gear and lots of time taking photos and editing them… but the question remains-
Are the photos of a good enough quality to justify the price?
Would need to know the asking price and see some samples to really be able to answer the question.
“It’s just a bleedin’ photograph!” I hear it all the time and I’m as hard as nails about it now. Or I love this one “some woman over there said they’re only a fiver” to which I reply “the pints are only 49 cents now see what the barman tells ya”. “I’m the bride’s god mother so I should get a discount”, ‘presumably so you can spend more on drink to piss away right?’
Don’t bother arguing other than to say “The price is €xx and that’s great value for what you’re getting”.
On the down side, my site started out as a digital sales site and I found it was a total flop. Paying to download digital goods just didn’t happen. Paying for prints does go over a lot better. Overall selling from a website is tough. If you can invest in more gear like a printer to make contact sheets or another screen for people to view their shots and then take cash on the day and post out prints later you might get a better twist out of it.
How much are you charging per shot though?
Photos are charged at £3 for low res, £5 for high res. The buyer receives a JPEG at either low res 1000px for their web blog, Facebook, Bebo etc. or high res 2000px if they want to get some prints done. Pretty much all the sales are for the low res versions.
I know £3 sounds like a small amount to charge for a photo, but most competitors are buying several from the same event. The going rate for similar (albeit bigger) events is usually around £4.50 – 5.50. The other thing to point out is that the photos receive no post processing, there are usually a few hundred of them. Just don’t want anyone thinking I’m charging too little and under cutting the market, my charges are set in line with other photographers at the same kind of events. That said personally I’m at the lower limit of the price I would be comfortable selling a photo for…
Would need to know the asking price and see some samples to really be able to answer the question.
The actual sales gallery is here if anyone wants to take a look. You can see the photos by clicking the different stages of the day on the left hand side (Start, Checkpoint etc.).
oh and don’t forget to put this link on your page… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY
If I was being totally honest…
I looked at the image galleries and I really could imagine a friend with a point and shoot doing these as a favour and giving me the originals afterwards. They just look like standard snapshots.
Sounds a bit harsh maybe… but that’s just my honest opinion on the matter.
J
All i can say after looking at the images is that there are some very good event photographers out there , Im sorry but the images are just not good enough to sell that may sound hard for you . keep covering the event look for better shots move away from the cars in the background pick a good place on the course itself, get some action shots as you improve hopefully the people will then be willing to pay, I also think your price is way too low if you ever want to make money from it, but you have to improve before you can charge more, Im not putting you down cause some of my stuff turns out sh it aswell
nfl-fan wrote:
Are the photos of a good enough quality to justify the price?
Isn’t that up to the market to decide? If there are two equally good pictures, one at 5€ and the other at 3€, then the guy who sells it at 5 will have a hard time justifying the 2€ difference.
But if the 5€ guys takes better pictures than the 3€ guy, it’s another matter, I guess. It’s up to the buyer to decide what he wants and how much he is willing to spend. But arguing that “the price is too high” won’t get anywhere, imho.Here’s a link to a youtube video I wanted to post earlier, but forgot about it :D
I did a lot of event photography during the summer for two other lads so I’d have some experience in this kind of thing.
I think the Checkpoint 1 and 10 stuff is fine. It’s a standard action shot with competitor filling the frame. They normally sell well and I don’t think £3 or £5 is in any way exhorbitant.
The other stuff isn’t the best though. The start and finish line stuff could have done with a little flash as they are all posing for the shots and the exposure is way out on some of them. Tha Kayaking stuff is all at the wrong angle so I can see why people wouldn’t buy this to be honest. If you could get them head on with some action like paddling then they prob would sell better.
Back to your original question though, if they want the pics then they will pay for them. Keep your prices as they are.
Personally I wouldn’t make a big song and dance over £3 – £5…
It’d be like haggling in a pound shop.
Whoever the guy is that is going to the effort of making you a counter offer must really be one hell of a tight git.
Whatever about the photos… who’d even bother going back and forth with someone for the sake of a pound or two?
nfl-fan wrote:
If I was being totally honest…
I looked at the image galleries and I really could imagine a friend with a point and shoot doing these as a favour and giving me the originals afterwards. They just look like standard snapshots.
Sounds a bit harsh maybe… but that’s just my honest opinion on the matter.
J
Would expect nothing less than an honest answer, appreciate your feedback. From my point of view I’ve to get photos of each competitor doing a variety of tasks across the day, which usually amounts to a couple of hundred photos. I’ve to get a clear shot of their face, and because they are running or cycling I’ve usually got one chance to get it. I’ll be the first to admit that there isn’t any art in it, I’m just capturing the competitors during the day which was my brief from the event organiser. I can’t afford to cherry pick just a few photos on artistic merit.
If you take a look over on the main site you can see galleries from other photographers covering similar events all over the world. Personally I don’t see that the event photos at other events are of a different style to mine? I guess the photos tend to be “quick & dirty” as some might say. They aren’t going to get printed, framed and hung above fireplaces but they will end up on web blogs and social networking sites. I’d say they are priced accordingly for that purpose.
The other question – I know someone could ask their friend to come along and take snapshots on the day. But would the friend drag themselves out of bed before the sun is up, travel nearly 100 miles to get there, then stand from early AM all day in the wind, wet and cold before heading on the return journey. And would they then sort through the photos the next day and be able to put them on a website for people to download with a photo of each and every competitor?
Dont take my comments the wrong way, I’m honestly appreciative of any feedback I get, but naturally I will be slightly defensive of my work ;)
Aye, I can appreciate that.
You had a fairly generic brief, it’s fair to say you’ve probably worked well to the brief and in my opinion the asking prices are too low to be haggling over.
See above
“Whoever the guy is that is going to the effort of making you a counter offer must really be one hell of a tight git. “
J
The above seems to me like a very common business situation, and one where the crux of the issue is business-related. As most professional photographers will tell, business and marketing skills are essential, and in some cases even more important than your shooting skills in some situations.
You are clearly operating a tried and trusted business model, adopted the world over for event photography of this nature, but have you asked yourself does this model still work in the present market, or more specifically does it work in the Irish market ?
Understanding your customers is of primary importance; this will give you the insight to know what your customers need/ want from your product/ services. Secondly, you need to use this information to provide a product which fulfills your customers needs. Thirdly, your product/ service offerings need to be provide good value, or else be the only option in the market.
There are rarely many free money gigs in life, and to be successful/ profitable, ALL of the above are critical, and nothing even remotely nouveau in terms of business knowledge. I don’t mean to be harsh, but if any of the above are new concepts to you, you need to get business-smart fast.
Lastly, I would add most new business ventures are not profitable off the bat, and of these, those without proper understanding of the cost structures of the business don’t last.
Damien
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