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My first sports photo here
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MartinOC wrote:
It must be at least 25 years since I was there, and as it is (I believe) the 4th oldest in the world and so did suffer from unsuitable inherited infrastructure, more than newer zoo would.
Yes, it certainly did suffer, but now it is very highly regarded and has one of the most successful animal breeding programs of any zoo. I would certainly recommend you take time to visit it now.
Even their website, and map (http://www.dublinzoo.ie/visiting/map.asp) show that the zoo is now more than double the size it was when you last visited.
It’s also a brilliant location for some photography.
MartinOC wrote:
All right Morrissey, but you better stay away from the food section. There is some atrocious stuff over there, let me say!
You are right, no place for being so anti-animal as my comments clearly were, better to keep these thoughts for the alt.fascism.vegetarianism message boards.
Good day to you Sir! :wink:
Nicely done-
:lol:
I hadn’t seen this before, so thanks for that-
Not a brilliant picture, I might have to say,
but as you say, a spectacle, and a curiosity-As for offending people by putting this in sports,
long may it continue-
there’s a fair amount of wooly minded thinking going on here-I presume its alright to put horses wearing numbers here?
even though its on the menu in France?And greyhounds are routinely clubbed to death if they don’t perform…
Whatever about the politics of food,
the photographer shouldn’t be criticized for posting a picture-
or even for reporting on how the subject ended up-I might draw the line at posting wild boar spit roast pictures in the sports section-
well, unless it was part of an eating competition-
and presumably the competitors would be wearing numbers then…Btw, I don’t particularly like zoos-
though I acknowledge their usefulness and importance-j
Ah joseph..that’s a little disengenuous.
I doubt, if Punk Rock is indeed an animal rights activist of any sort, that he would agree with horse racing..or the consuming of any animal.
And just because the French think somethings okay doesn’t mean we all do.
I’d find this image..or let me be more precise..this “sport”…distasteful in ANY forum. Not so that I’m going to lose any sleep over it…but it just reminds me of a circus freak show
Also I don’t agree that a poster should not be criticized for posting and only on the technical merits of the shot itself.
Do you really believe that to be true? Post and be damned?
Anyway.. personally I only commented at all because I don’t believe that someone’s views should be dismissed as flippantly as I believe this posters comments were. The fact that I more or less agreed with him might taint my view of course.
Of course he might have been a bit more restrained with his own comments. Telling Martin to cop himself on was not exactly high brow debate.
Expresbro wrote:
Of course he might have been a bit more restrained with his own comments. Telling Martin to cop himself on was not exactly high brow debate.
Absolutely agree there-
Regarding your other point, yes, post and be damned-
If a picture can get a reaction such as this, that is its own justification for posting it.There is enough censorship out there- and to suggest a photographer should self-censor a picture like this is just a bit too much-
As far as I can see, its a sports picture, in the sport section-
if you want proof, look at the numbers-
if that was on television in this country, people would bet on it-I think this thread is helping to highlight cultural differences-
and logic is taking a back seat-That pig in the front, after all, is flying…
j
Touchy subject!
Photographically: It’s not a great shot. Probably as good as could be done in the circumstances, but it could have been taken from lower down, and cropped in way tighter.
Subject Matter: Folks all round the world do very strange things that would be somewhere distastefull and illegal over here. Would I go there to photograph them: No. Would I take a snap if I was there anyway?: Yes.
Merv.
Cultural differences huh?
Well personally I think a lot of very shady and inhumane practices get swept to one side using the handy little excuse of cultural practice.
With regard to this particular little gem..I think what may have caused the offense, if offense was caused, was the jokey comment about eating the runners afterwards.
I still think that if someone posted a similar shot of a horse race with the same comment, people would not be laughing along and saying how jolly funny it all was.
Shergar steaks anyone?
8)
Oh and btw..if I decided to post a humorous shot of say a horse doing tricks in a circus while a ringkeeper struck him with a whip I’d expect to be taken up on it..irrespective of the quality of the shot.
It’s not always about Photography.
Rant over.
Robbie, I have to say, you do seem to be making a lot of this up-
its just not in the picture, that I can see-Nobody has mentioned a whip,
though I do believe you can be fined for excessive use of it-
and I’ve seen plenty of pictures of jockeys using it-A picture can be used as commentary-
if you believe strongly that something is wrong,
and you’re in a position to make an image that communicates your feelings,
then I don’t see the logic in not taking it, or not posting it-
Surely self censorship gone mad?Animal rights activists, in particular, have used pictures that were intended to shock-
and might have helped to change things for the better, in some small way-Though they’ve also used bombs, murder, and other terrorist tactics-
Perhaps emblematic of the cultural differences you were talking about-Cultural differences are just that-
differences-
To call them shady and inhumane is perhaps hyperbolic in the cases you mentioned-
though perhaps you mean that everything in our culture is fine,
and its just other cultures that are inhumane?Regarding the steaks-
as I mentioned earlier, France, if that’s your poison-And regarding the picture above-
rashers, sausages and pudding-A particularly Irish recipe,
I would have thought,
and not one that would have much trouble crossing the cultural divide-j
jb7 wrote:
That pig in the front, after all, is flying…
j
:)
Hugely entertaining thread, and thanks for the Monday evening chuckle…
Self censorship gone mad – I agree.That aside, this has given a new idea for the Movie Extras thread, my worst
pun yet…Rob.
Am a bit dubious about even replying in this thread as this is probably a whole discussion altogether now.
But on that front.. I do believe we had moved on a little from the original shot itself.
I am well aware that there is no whip in the shot. There is also not much sign of a horse either for that matter. Or a greyhound.
My point was..and is..the manner first of all in which somebody is automatically bracketed as a looney militant because they believe that it is wrong to portray animals in this manner.
I am of that belief myself….though hardly militant in my beliefs…and while I probably would not have commented at all on the shot personally, I felt I was right to do so given the manner of the reply.
Apart from the silly cooment at the end of his post Punk or whatever his name is was quite entitled I believe to comment on the content of the shot.
Surely if he is not allowed to…isn’t that censorship?
If I’m wrong (or if that makes me wooly headed)..well..tie me up and make me listen to two hours of John Waters and sure I’ll be thinking “right” in no time!!
My point about different cultures being used as an excuse for sometimes barbaric behaviour is exactly that. I don’t care which culture you care to mention, ours included.
Actually when you say “ours” I’m not altogether sure which culture you are referring to? Gaelic? European? Irish? Dublin? Northside? Southside? There are lots of cultures and sub cultures everywhere as I’m sure you well know. It’s a particular bugbear of mine (you’d never guess) when I hear people claim a “right” to act in a certain way because it is a “cultural” thing.
Says who!!?
I am all to familiar with the failings of our so called civilised society…and the things that we Irish in particular seem happy to brush off as “Just a bit of craic”
But again..that’s another story.. and another debate.
and another day. :shock:
Fair enough, but my original point about lunch was to mention the different attitude toward animals here than at home.
It certainly is a bit of a “freak” show, but fairly harmless believe.
If some someone puts a photos in PI where horse-races are presented I would not go on about the in-breeding in horse racing or about the reasons why one of the leaders in the Kentucky Derby broke both her ankles and had to be put to death, etc, etc.The cruelty in my lunch, was a lot less than the cruelty in your average chicken burger, or non-free-range rasher. The centre’s purpose teach people about these animals. And it is better, I think, to see the meat, that some of us eat, as real animals with personalities.
For me wild or domesticated is not the point but the amount of cruelty/suffering involved.I don’t think of meat as something in a little plastic box, no matter how civilised that appears. I think there is a bad disconnect sometimes between food, and where it comes from.
On that one day, I had a good idea of the type of life that the sacrificed animal had. More honest than most of the meals with meat I ever had.People can get disgusted when you start to redraw the dotted line between the chops in the plastic box and the child-like play of the little lambies, its not civilised for some.
I should have put this photo in the travel section. At least there in is probably bona fida to discuss social differences, not that I intended to start such a discussion.
And thanks for the C&C on the photo, not a great shot but the best I good get, moving objects are difficult. I should stick to inanimates :)
Martin
Ah that’s fair enough Martin.
I for one have no problems discussing where my meat comes from..or anyone else’s for that matter.
And I agree 100% that people should be aware that Pork is Pig and lamb is that little fluffy thing in the field.
And in fairness. I think that anybody who is in the least bit interested in animals or their welfare would make it their business to know.
But you’d be surprised at the number of people that get extremely annoyed when you gently point it out to them.. :wink:
But some people take this subject VERY seriously. almost as seriously as some people take their cameras.
It’s nice to provide a chuckle for people..but some of us get more annoyed about animal cruelty than whether or not a horizon is straight or a highlight is blown.
As for me..well sometimes things get up my nose…
Gotta scratch it then… :wink:
Well my reply has def had the impact I’d hoped it would, yes I’m a veggie and yes I am against Horse racing too and yes I know what happens in the Greyhound industry.
I know my type get accused of being militant loonies but my original point was I’m in love with photography and yes I am depressed the whole weekend if Arsenal lose or draw a match but in no way do I visit a Sports forum to read about some tourist blabbering on about the joys of picking out an Animal for a bet and then eating it.
If I had to pick a forum for it, maybe it would be Hunting?I take your points Robbie.
This type of thing hits us more as it is unfamiliar, because we have
separated horses and dogs: raised for our entertainment; from cows and pigs: raised for food.
Eating ham sandwiches, while watching horse-racing, is no prob for most on this forum, but if you analyse it (outside of cultural norms)
not so different from eating dog at dog races (animal welfare all being equal, but some may take animal intelligence into account).
Horse eating at horse racing is probably ok in France, I would guess, as jb7 pointed out. That is not to say the French are cruel.I am playing the devils advocate a bit here as I don’t eat so much meat and can live without it. But I do think animal cruelity/discomfort/stress is more a part of your typical Irish supermarket than this boar center.
To Punk Rock
I don’t know what criteria Mark (owner/admin) would use to allow posts, or delete them. But I guess he may follow the “cultural norms” of Ireland.
You may have to except hare coursing, or deer hunting under sport, but of course you definitely can object.It is true, that your original parting shot line did raise a reaction which blossomed into this discussion,
but your little jabs I don’t think serve you well. Being polite, informed and persuasive would do your cause more justice.
Being personal just doesn’t do it, although you can fire back something just to finish off the thread.Yours
blabbering tourist
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