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Pension levy- whats your opinion
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Do I believe that we all benefited from the Celtic Tiger?
NoDo I believe that we all contributed to the current state of the economy?
NoDo I believe that people are allowed to feel bitter about taking a pay decrease irrespective of what sector they work in?
YesDo I believe that taking a pay cut is better than taking redundancy?
YesDo I believe that every Public Servant should be tarred with the same brush?
No. If we look at the situation as Indians & Chiefs – there are a lot of Indians who turn up to work every day, fulfil their role and have little or no say over how the Chiefs govern. Not every Public Servant is lazy, not every Public Servant fills an unnecessary role, not every Public Servant has a say in how things are run, and not every Public Servant is making as much as the average wage for the Public Service SectorDo I resent the fact that Public Servants have a guaranteed job and a guaranteed pension?
Well, there’s no such thing as a guaranteed job, so no to that. As for a guaranteed pension, well I don’t resent the individual who takes up a role in the Public Sector and avails of such a benefit, but I do think that the Government are at fault for this sort of imbalance.Will Deflation offset pay decreases incurred by the Pension Levy?
It might at some stage in the future… but that’s not to say it will. It’s all speculative right now as to what might go down in price and whether this will mean more money in a person’s pocket really boils down to each person’s own circumstances. My Commuter Pass increased by €600 this year, none of my other bills has gone down. Yes Mortgages have come down, but that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is better off as a result of it. Some may have smaller mortgages with a smaller decrease in repayments which doesn’t offset other price hikes, some may have no mortgage at all. Other forms of lending such as standard loans, bank overdrafts & credit cards haven’t really decreased in cost that much – so people tied up in this sort of debt may not necessarily see any benefit from ECB rate drops.Will Electricity & Gas prices deflate?
I reckon they will come down – but not at the rate they have being going up in recent years. If my memory servers me correctly there were two 25% price hikes in Gas in recent years – but I ‘bet’ that any price decrease will be in the region of 5%.Has the price of petrol deflated?
Yes, but nowhere near the rate of oil decreases. Refinery & tax costs aside – oil has depreciated in cost in the region of 60-65% (ballpark) whilst the price at the pump has come down about 25-30% (ballpark).BTW:
Using the 451 Theory of Deflation I have deduced that the price of a pint is on the decrease.
If SupplierA.PintPrice < SupplierB.PintPrice Then
Pint.Price.Decrease = True
End IfThe code is a bit crappy as you have to make sure yourself that SupplierA is always set to the cheaper supplier. I’ll get around to fixing that later.
‘Having shopped around I inserted some real life scenario type variables
If EnniscorthyPub.PintPrice < DublinPub.PintPrice Then
Pint.Price.Decrease = True
End IfDebug.Show EnniscorthyPub.PintPrice (€3.50)
Debug.Show DublinPub.PintPrice (€4.50)I have yet to figure out what would go in the Else statement on this one –
If SupplierA.PintPrice < SupplierB.PintPrice Then
Pint.Price.Decrease = True
Else
— Code will go here when I figure it out
End IfSo.. we can all go on the beer this weekend to ease our woes knowing that we are paying less for our slurpo… and if anyone tells you that just because the cost of a pint in Enniscorthy is cheaper than Dublin doesn’t mean that prices are actively decreasing just tell them that you have read “The Gospel According to Michael” Chapter 4 Verse 51.
J
irishwonkafan wrote:
Else get.tinnies
//ref.Dutch_GoldAdherence to the Gold Standard was a major cause of the last Great Depression…
or was it the one before that?Dunno, can’t remember, but I think it was a Sunday, and lasted until Wednesday-
j
I’d rather drink my own Urine than Dutch Gold (and it’s free)…but that’s a side issue .. :wink:
If I buy a loaf at £1 this month and I can buy an equivalent loaf at 95p
next month, it doesn’t matter where I get it from, it’s come down in price.
If it’s 90p the month after that it’s (lo and behold) cheaper again. Someone
is giving up money between producer and consumer – that’s deflation.I’m not argueing that a price drop from £1 to 95p over the space of a month isn’t deflation… it is.
“Shopping around for a better deal isn’t really what I’d class as deflation.”
Well, that’s exactly what deflation amounts to.
What I’m trying to say… well –
Day 1 – Supplier A is selling at £1 and Supplier B is selling at 95p.
Tomorrow Supplier A is selling a £1 and Supplier B is selling at 95p.
The following week Supplier A is selling a £1 and Supplier B is selling at 95p.
The following month Supplier A is selling a £1 and Supplier B is selling at 95p.
The following year Supplier A is selling a £1 and Supplier B is selling at 95p.
There has been no change over the course of the year.
This isn’t an accurate representation of deflation over the course of a year because nothing has decreased in price. Prices have remained constant in this scenario. There are price differentials between the suppliers, but both their base prices are the same for the year.
So if you get your car insurance cheaper this year from another supplier than you bought it last year from the previous supplier it doesn’t necessarily mean that the prices have dropped in the past year. What you paid dropped but the prices from both suppliers may have been the same last year, you just didn’t shop around for a deal the previous year.
J
Well… January’s figures are in –
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0212/inflation.html
The latest figures from the CSO show that the country saw negative inflation as prices fell by 0.1% in January from the same time last year.
The CSO says that consumer prices in January decreased by 1.7% in the month.
It says the last time there was negative annual inflation was in 1960.
AdvertisementThis compares to a decrease of 0.5% recorded in January of last year.
The price of clothing and footwear fell by 13.2%; housing, water, electricity, gas and fuel dropped by 7%, while household furnishings and equipment decreased by 2.6%.
The cost of miscellaneous goods and services, health, and alcoholic beverages and tobacco all increased.
I’m curious about electricity & gas… were these price decreases passed on to consumers or is this simply the cost to the suppliers or supply to commercial customers?
I’m curious about electricity & gas… were these price decreases passed on to consumers or is this simply the cost to the suppliers or supply to commercial customers?
You can download the details from cso.ie , it says that it is the “Consumer Price Index”, so should reflect retail, not wholesale prices.
From their pdf “Definition The Consumer Price Index is designed to measure the change in the average level of prices (inclu-
sive of all indirect taxes) paid for consumer goods and services by all private households in the
country and by foreign tourists holidaying in Ireland.”Btw the reason petrol doesn’t come don’t proportionally with crude is that it doesn’t go up proportionally either. When Brent went from USD35 to USD140 the pump price didn’t quadruple.
Lots of fixed costs in distribution I guess.
Having said that, just as with interest rates, the raises are passed to consumers a lot quicker than the falls.I noticed that the CSO bundle “Housing, Water, Electricity, Gas and Other Fuels” so it could be the case that significant decreases in “Housing” and “Other Fuels” pull the entire grouping down… but Electricity & Gas have yet to drop as individual entities yet.
I work in the public sector and I (and all other public sector colleagues that I have talked to) am very annoyed about this crisis. At no stage have public sector members said that they are not prepared to take any cuts as part of an overall plan for all sectors of the work force.
This ‘pension levy’, as it is called, is nothing other than a tax directed specifically at the public sector. During the ‘Celtic Tiger” years, when there were any pay negotiations for public sector workers, we were always made very aware of our pension situation and were told that this ‘benefit’ was taken in to account when our pay increases were calculated. Our pay did not rise in keeping with inflation and we accepted that. Now this bargaining leverage, which was used to negotiate or pay downward, has been used against us again and targeted.
The notion that our jobs are secure for life is nonsense. Sure, they are more secure than the private sector but not guaranteed. A lot of public service jobs are by contract and already many sectors have announced that these contracts will not be renewed Look at the County Council offices lately which have come out and said this. Look at what happened regarding the Special Needs teachers this week. This is only the start as contracts start to come to their term, but the public sector is not immune to lay-offs and these people will not receive redundancy.
I am very annoyed about how the media has whipped up an unbalanced frenzy, pitting the private sector against the public sector and has not given a balanced report on the issues. This should not be turned in to an ‘us’ and ‘them’ situation. Is not about ‘us and them’, we are all workers with families and responsibilities who are mutually dependent on each other in varying ways.The public sector has been demonized purely on the basis that we have objected to the Pension Levy even though we have not objected to reductions in pay and have not denied that we have a responsibility too. The media has not reported this! The media have not reported on any historical background of our pension arrangements but have used this stick to whip up a frenzy. If the government want to get more money out of us then why not make it equitable. If they want to increase revenue to fill up this black hole then apply it in a way that takes in all workers. If some one is on €100,000 (not me by any stretch) in the public sector and the government wants to extract an extra €7.5K from them each year, then why shouldn’t this apply to all workers? If someone is on a lower wage of say €15,000, then they shouldn’t have to pay any extra ‘levy’ or any other type of tax which will reduce their take-home. The system is not equitable.
I am not by any means saying that the Public Sector is perfect or that there isn’t a need for reform. It’s obvious that improvement is always needed everywhere and we all need to be involved in this process. But the notion of beating up the ‘indians’ because the multitude of ‘chiefs’ got it wrong is obviously unfair.
Every one in the Public Sector is very conscious of the fact that we are cushioned, to a certain extent, from the severest of the current impacts that are befalling the country and realize that we have to make sacrifices too. That is a given. No one wants to take a pay cut, that, too, is a given. But the fact is that we do have to take a hit just like every one else, we have to give up part of our salary. Any one who says different or resists it is not being realistic.
Please, could people get rid of this ‘us and them’ frenzy that has been stirred up by the media, egged on by the government. If this continues it will develop a rift which will only fester and be counter productive.
It always annoys me when people from ISME and the likes come on the radio and talk about the Public Sector as if it’s just another business. It isn’t and it shouldn’t be seen as such.
Private sector business is there for one reason at the end of the day. To make a profit. At least I’ve never heard of a business that was deliberately set up to lose money..then again..this is Ireland and anything is possible.
It annoys the hell out of me when I hear these people talk about a service like Dublin Bus as if it’s just another profit making machine. Or should be.
It’s supposed to be just what it’s name suggests..a service to the Public.
The majority of the people who work for these organisations are workers..the same as me and most other people on this site.
Maybe I’m naive, but I believe that working people should stick together and be united in these times..not bickering over who has a bigger slice of the ever shrinking pie.
The last ten to fifteen years have been good times for workers by and large..but you can bet your life that comments like ” Take it or leave it..there’s plenty of people out there willing to take your job” are not too far away.
I’m just thankful that I’m past the period of my life when I have to worry about crap like that.
Expresbro wrote:
It annoys the hell out of me when I hear these people talk about a service like Dublin Bus as if it’s just another profit making machine. Or should be.
I agree. Dublin Bus has axed several routes and curtailed others recently. If there was an obligation on bus routes to be profitable then the idea of it being a ‘Public Service’ is flawed. You will then find that the management feel that “That route was not profitable enough” It’s a public service which, at the end of the day, caters for all sectors of the community, but when it is withdrawn then it is the vulnerable who are left with nothing. You cannot run a public service strictly as if it is a business or else it is no longer a Public Service.
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