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Photographing in public places
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There is a fair bit of conversation going on in the UK photo mags about being harrassed by police when shooting in public places.
Has anyone ever had any trouble in this regard in Ireland?. It would be nice to know what laws there are that might protect us.
Could a gard ask to delete photos/confiscate camera or would he require a court order as in the UK?
Is there anything like the anti-terrorism act here?
Personally, I have never had a problem, only once asked by civilian security to move off the IFSC property in Dublin. In general around the city I use a Canon G10 so look like any other tourist. I once strayed into Stephens green with a 400mm at lunchtime which prompted a lot of newspaper lifting and leg crossing but did not incur any wrath from the park attendants.
It seems we have it easy by comparison but will it last?
Pete
Last week I had a felt a presence behind me while reviewing pictures-
I turned around to find a wpc looking over my shoulder,
but she had seen enough by then, and just moved on-Some people I was with were asked by the same wpc to show her their pictures-
She had a hard time understanding that you don’t get instant feedback from a film camera.It seems the ultimate response would be to refuse to hand over media,
and demand to be arrested-
although I’d advise courtesy as a first line of defence.I wouldn’t go out of my way to photograph policemen,
unless they were breaking the law…
and even then, it would seem, you’d be asking for trouble-There is a sense of (justified) paranoia due to terrorist attacks,
and if the terrorists use cameras to gather information,
then anyone using a camera will be viewed with suspicion,
until proved otherwise-
just as airline carry on restrictions were introduced after the liquid explosive case which finished in the UK last week-In the end, it affects all of us-
Policemen don’t have any interest in photography,
although they see it as a useful tool for intelligence gathering,
so perhaps they assume that’s the only reason why people take pictures…Probably best to have a read of this and then wittle it down from there http://www.digitalrights.ie/2006/05/09/photographers-rights/
During my military service, there were a number of occassions where cameras / film were confiscated from members of the public who were photographing what were classed as “sensitive or restricted areas”. The Gardai were the only ones who were authorised to do this. Once the photographs were viewed and it was established that they posed no threat, they were returned to the photographer. In the case of photos which did include sensitive material (ie military observation posts etc), they were not returned for security reasons. Photographing Police/Gardai, soldiers, security personnel etc could be seen as a threat to their safety, depending on the situation. For example, a Garda operating on a checkpoint at the border may feel threatened, whereas a member of the Garda band at the Rose of Tralee festival would not. Lots of people photograph each other in shops etc and don’t realise that this can also be seen as a security issue. With a bit of thought beforehand, I think that you can photograph things in most areas without the fear of being hassled from the Police, but due to the terrorist threat in the world, we may not be so free to do so as we once were.
I think you answered your own query by using the G10. Its the perception that the bigger the camera the greater the threat. One instance well publicised in the UK was where a photographer with a SLR was harassed by police when he was taking photos of Laticia Dean (yer wan from Eastenders) when she was turning on Christmas lights. He was brought down an alley and his equipment was confiscated. Meanwhile several hundred camera phones and compacts were busily capturing the moment. And Guards cannot confiscate your equipment unless they have reason to believe it is being used in an illegal manner or for illegal means which would be quite difficult. For them to demand it would be tantamount to theft. But as JB says it’s better to avoid confrontation but certainly inform them of your own rights in a mannerly way.
Funnily enough there has been no record of terrorists taking photographs of their targets. Google Earth does that for them if they wanted it. It’s a paranoid state at the moment with no easy answer other than be polite but also be aware of your rights…as well as those you wish to terrorize with your G10.
Alan.
irishwonkafan wrote:
Its the perception that the bigger the camera the greater the threat.
Whenever I see someone shooting 8×10, ‘terrorist’ is the first thing that enters my head…
Of course, a large format owner would be deemed harmless…best left alone.
Funny, when writing the last comment I thought – hmmm, better specify SLR coz JB’ll surely come in about his big black box…then I forgot.
1993 in Dublin Airport and no notices anywhere about photography. I got stopped by the airport police (Outside the fence near the Team building) photographing the Airbus or 767 that had returned from China and was only painted white with the shamrock on the tail. The police called the Aer Lingus security and then turned their backs on me when the security guy gave me a few punches in the face. He then took my camera and film and removed the film and threw my camera back at me. When I asked for a receipt and names everybody drove off. Santry Gardai got my film back un-exposed along with an apology. Never did get any compensation.
Be careful it does happen!
Sheldon wrote:
1993 in Dublin Airport and no notices anywhere about photography. I got stopped by the airport police (Outside the fence near the Team building) photographing the Airbus or 767 that had returned from China and was only painted white with the shamrock on the tail. The police called the Aer Lingus security and then turned their backs on me when the security guy gave me a few punches in the face. He then took my camera and film and removed the film and threw my camera back at me. When I asked for a receipt and names everybody drove off. Santry Gardai got my film back un-exposed along with an apology. Never did get any compensation.
Be careful it does happen!
Your killing me.
irishwonkafan wrote:
Of course, a large format owner would be deemed harmless…best left alone.
Funny, when writing the last comment I thought – hmmm, better specify SLR coz JB’ll surely come in about his big black box…then I forgot.
The thing about 8×10 is, you hardly need to blow it up at all-
Though maybe I shouldn’t bother trying to have that conversation with the Guards…
Aer Lingus security – you mean the security section of a a private company? – and you were outside the airport boundary when you took the pics?
Sheldon wrote:
1993 in Dublin Airport and no notices anywhere about photography. I got stopped by the airport police (Outside the fence near the Team building) photographing the Airbus or 767 that had returned from China and was only painted white with the shamrock on the tail. The police called the Aer Lingus security and then turned their backs on me when the security guy gave me a few punches in the face. He then took my camera and film and removed the film and threw my camera back at me. When I asked for a receipt and names everybody drove off. Santry Gardai got my film back un-exposed along with an apology. Never did get any compensation.
Be careful it does happen!
I just realised, I was photographing jets flying overhead out of boredom the other day and only copped on now that it was 9/11. I could’ve been done for terrorism. :shock:
PeteBedell wrote:
There is a fair bit of conversation going on in the UK photo mags about being harrassed by police when shooting in public places.
Has anyone ever had any trouble in this regard in Ireland?. It would be nice to know what laws there are that might protect us.
Could a gard ask to delete photos/confiscate camera or would he require a court order as in the UK?
Is there anything like the anti-terrorism act here?
Personally, I have never had a problem, only once asked by civilian security to move off the IFSC property in Dublin. In general around the city I use a Canon G10 so look like any other tourist. I once strayed into Stephens green with a 400mm at lunchtime which prompted a lot of newspaper lifting and leg crossing but did not incur any wrath from the park attendants.
It seems we have it easy by comparison but will it last?
Pete
I’ve personally never had any problems in public.
A Garda has now power to view/delete your images. If the images are in breach of any law, then they must be preserved, and used in court. Otherwise, you’re entitled to keep the photos. Again, my understanding is that they don’t have the power to demand to view your images, and a search warrant would be required.
There is no specific anti-terrorism law in Ireland, as there is in the UK.
The IFSC is private land, so security there can ask you to stop photographing and leave the property. But they cannot view your images nor make you delete them.
There is also no law that stops you photographing planes.
Never had any problems with the police, even when I photographed an incident where a police firearm was discharged. One of the officers asked (politly) if I had photographed the incident, and when I replied “Yes”, they asked for my Name, Address and a contact telephone number which I chearfully provided. No request was make to view the images. I sent some of the shots to a local newspaper and when they where published the officers faces had been pixelated and a note at the bottom to say that the PSNI had ask for the officers faces not to be shown.
I have had problems at an amature sports event in a local park when an overzelous official objected to me taking photos. When I explained that it was a public place and I could take photos of anyone or anything that I wished he threatened to take my camera. When I further explained that I was carring a heavy metal monopod, and would happily beat the bejesuses out of him if he so much as reached for my equipment, he reconsidered. He did treaten to call the police, but they must have been busy, as for the rest of the day they failed to appear.
That said, its OK for someone like me who can be quite biligerant at the drop of a hat, I am sure that many others would be intimadated.
As to the legal position. in a public place you can photograph anyone or anything with three specific exceptions
1. You may not photograph within the precints of a court of law. (could also be construed as persons entering or leaving a courthouse where identifing them may prejudice a case )
2. A MOD establishment where photography is prohibited AND you are aware of that prohibition.
3. Currency for the purposes of counterfeiting.A police officer cannot compel you to show your images, nor can they seize your equipment without a court order. They quite specifically CANNOT order you to delete you images, for the following reason.
If the images were taken illegally, then they are evidence to that offence, and under PACE (Police and Crimanal Evidence Act) must be protected as physical evidence. Deleting the images would in its-self be a Criminal offence (tampering with evidence). If the images were NOT obtained illegally then you cannot be compeled to delete them.Sorry if this is a bit off topic but could some of the members of PI chip into a small fund to get proper legal advice on where we all stand on these matters, which we can print or post as a PDF for all to carry in our camera bags and circulate to An Garda etc.
If our rights fall short of what we think is fair we could start a lobby to have this changed, teaming up with other amateur and professional bodies.
Any interest?
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