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Poor wedding photographs
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Photography is an art but shouldn’t there be at least minimum standard to adhere to like insurance, tax compliant, garda clearance and some form of qualification. Without any standards in this industry there will always be cowboys and as long as there are cowboys there will always be photographers given a bad name.
I was always interested in photography, always trying to learn more and develop my skills. I never charged anyone untill I had full insurance and my business set up 100 per cent. I dont think it is fair that people can go out calling themselves pro photographers who have just bought a digital camera and are looking for a quick few bob.
Hi John,
Just to give a small bit of background……I’m very new to “Professional Photography”, so the last thing I want to do is come across as “been there and done that” type of photographer that feels threatened by the amount of people that are now turning to photography as a source of income. I am one of the “new guys”.
I agree with you about photography being an art…..there are people who are creative and could do a very reasonable job with a minimal kit at a wedding, and there are people who literally have tens of thousands of euro worth of equipment that just struggle at all times with composition, lighting, communication etc. Having an “eye” is so important, especially if one wants to stand out in a saturated market. As well as having an eye, it’s extremely important to know your stuff about shutter speeds, apertures and ISO’s….very hard to get the best of your camera if your just shooting in auto.
I recently spoke with a fellow professional photographer who was complaining about the amount of photographers that were living within a certain radius of him….and how they had literally stole his business from under his nose. Unfortunately, this photographer was under the illusion that photography owed him a living and that all of the new people to the scene (which includes myself) had deprived him of that……far from it, I believe this will help photography as a whole….standards should improve.
This thread started off with a forum member asking for help regarding a poor photography service for a €650 fee. I empathize with the poor bride and groom….it’s one of the worst things that could happen to someone on a wedding day. In the past three years, I’ve had three couples call to me with wedding images in the hope that I could rescue the very poor images that were captured. Two of the brides in particular were very emotional when I explained to them that there was practically nothing I could do for them….shots out of focus, heads/bodies missing from images and exposures that were all over the places. Looking at the poor images that were taken and passed onto the Brides and Grooms, you couldn’t help but get angry at the person that took them….shocking work that I wouldn’t pay €5 for….never mind €650. Images were presented on a dvd and no effort was made to “personalise” the wedding images……really horrific stuff. When you see this kind stuff John….and all the posts that you see on this forum and other forums with regards to poor wedding photography, one can’t help but think that “sterilization” would be a healthy thing for the industry.
I commend Gerry on his ability to give passive opinions on the thread (as he has done on other threads also), hopefully his thoughts might be of benefit in some small way to “trueblue” and his newly wed friends.
Best regards,
John
As a amateur photographer i have looked at this thread and thought the same how can some people get away with this kind of service
But then i looked at the response from other members so here is my thoughts
1 the fact that €650 for ur biggest day just on a CD is just unbelievable yes they should have got images that where of a high quality but did the couple ask for references , speak to the the referrals , look at the printed photos ,talk to the photographer an sort out the days shoot look at the vat no on the quote that they should have got from the said photographer
2 couples spend thousands on there wedding ie dress, cars , hotel, honeymoon etc ……. and €650 on their photographer to just put images on a CD , there in lays the problem and that can not be regulated …… how ever i do feel so sorry that that couple had a bad experience with a so called photographer but they could have got lots more photographer’s to do there wedding they chose the cheapest ……… not to say that if they had got a more expensive photographer they would have had fantastic wedding photo’s but with the proper planing they would have had exactly what they wanted .
3 regulation well thats thing it can work but with photography i don’t see how it can this big list that “pro photographer’s” have that in their mind will only drive photography into the black market when people will have even more horror stories to tell wedding photography is changing all the time new fads are coming in all the time and a lot of that is due to amateur photographer’s pushing them the boundaries , i think regulation will put photography back yr’s i’m sure every pro photographer out there would like to see there Business protected from the” sunday pro “my answer to that is move with the times and let your work stand for its self we have courts to deal with people like that couple had to deal with regulation will not stop people trying to get a deal ……….. serve an apprenticeship (minimum 2-3years of studying under a professional photographer this would be a fine idea but and it is a but will that not just serve to turn out the same old style wedding photos AGAIN what will i learn from this pro how to make all of my income from photography or will this pro teach me something totally new that i could not come up with from developing my own style
i would much rather pick up the paper and read that photographer go’s to jail for doing a crapy job of a couples wedding .. when we see the first Instagram wedding will we except it or will we want to regulate it as wellthis is not ment to offend any photographer’s out there it is only My Opinion
i’m sure that there are enough pro photographers out there that could reshoot most of that couples wedding for free and give them something to have for there album its just a thoughtJohn17 wrote:
You’ve done the hard graft Gerry & well done to you but what I’m asking you & I
suppose all professional photographers is the people that ye are giving out about,
were you that person trying to make his name or carve a niche in the photography
world a few years ago?What are your views on people currently looking for reviews on their websites?
I will admit that some are quite good, although that can’t be said about them all!
I think that digital photography is a lot easier to master than film with so many
books & tutorials on it but you still need to have an eye for it. (No pun intended)I personally don’t agree with your ideas for a level playing field! Photography is
an art & it shouldn’t be sterilised through the ideas that you have suggested.Best of luck to you in your business & photography.
John.
Thank you John for the good wishes ….. much appreciated and needed ! :)
I’m really not giving out about anyone (I hope). Quiet honestly what I feel is that the industry is going in reverse when wedding photography is now being seen as the “lower end” of the market and so many photographers are moving away from it. I am even moving in that direction as studio portraiture is now much more attractive and has a better earnings potential. At 57 I am only 3 years away from simi-retirement as I will be drawing my personal pension at that time. I also seem to be working in the UK quiet a bit this year and also got working with the “Strictly Come Dancing” people and its looking good (fingers crossed) that I might get another bit of work in the coming series …. but then, one never knows …… it’s all about luck (and knowing the right people). I am across there again in July and hope someone will take pity on me and offer “the crumbs from the table”. Little things like that will hopefully keep me busy and as I no longer have to worry about mortgages or loans I am probably lucky. I do not see professional photography being a business that will give a living income to anyone in 7 years from now.I do not look at websites at all so I really do not know about reviews on them. Digital photography is fine and I must admit many of my generation converted late. I jumped in in 2002 and for the first year was “isolated” from the rest of the bunch as if I had acquired a new, highly contagious disease. I still feel that one must learn the very basics and the history and progression of photography. Learn all about
Silver Halide Emulsions, glass slides and negatives, the basics of the camera and how shutter, aperture and iso (ASA) work and relate to each other. Learn the mathematics of the lens and f.stops, etc, etc. Get into the Lab and experiment with making film and negatives, experiment with colour emulsion layers, developing and printing in the C41 process. Not only will it give one a concept of how photography works but it gives a better understanding of how the camera works …… even the modern digital camera. It’s sad to think that some people think the P setting is Professional. I know many professionals us it as if it were!I agree that photography is art but anything that involves trade ie. selling of goods or services is Business and all customers and consumers have rights and must be protected. This is why I feel that the items I listed are a requirement for the business of photography
(1) A proscribed level of competency in photography would have to be attained and demonstrated.
Simple protection for the consumer
(2) Completion of a Business course would be required.
Awareness for the photographer of how business is conducted and what are the statutory requirements for business operators in Ireland
The course gives an insight on book-keeping, accounting, marketing, revenue requirements, dealing with suppliers, invoicing, banking, etc. etc.(3) A garda clearance profile to be obtained.
Again, customer protection. I will be working in a School on Wednesday next with 430 pupils and I feel I should come under the same scrutiny as any of the teachers or assistants who work there. Working with children is a potential danger right now.
(4) Obtain a Business registration certificate.
Protection for the trader and registration of the business name.
(5) Have public liability and professional indemnity insurance (to a certain defined level)
This needs no explanation or justification at all and is protection for all parties concerned
(6) VAT registered, Tax compliance and CO2 certificate obtained.
The Law requires this and any public contracts one tenders for requires a CO2 certificate. Even doing small commissions for a County Council requires a CO2 certificate.
I honestly think that these (the above) are basic requirements for any business ……… and professional photography may be art in the making but it is a business in the trading and comes under the laws of commerce.
I do not think that the above is sterilising photography ………… just cleaning it up a bit and making the business side a bit more reputable and putting a bit of confidence back into the industry. Anyway, just my ideas which are not worth much but just as I see it.
Apologies to the originator if I have taken this thread off topic …… was not my intention at all and John MacMahon, thanks for your kind comments ….much more than I deserve.
In fairness Gerry you’ve explained it well & I’ll agree with you on some of your points but not them all.
I would love to be doing more in photography. I’ld love to upgrade my camera & do a few courses
but unfortunately the circumstances do not allow. I can see many a photographer in the same
situation as I. Someone who wants to move forward but is restrained financially from doing so.Besh wishes, John.
John, just a word of encouragement (I hope). I understand exactly where you are at and I know how you feel. I was there at that point years back also and sheer determination got me through. I saw months when I did not have the money to pay my bills but somehow, just somehow I managed. My “life story” above is only a brief glimpse of the good progression but there were many moments of black despair but I always made sure that bills and debts came first, upgrading of equipment came second and I came last in that order. Nobody that I know have had it all good.
John …….. if you want to do it, you will ……….. keep believing in yourself, upgrade little by little as you can and keep learning. And most of all if you feel I can help, you can be assured of the little I can offer. I know times are bad right now but that too will pass. Keep trying, keep learning and never stop seeking any help you need. I am grateful also for the help I got all those years along the way and owe so much to many photographers still working today and to some great souls no longer with us.Hi i have read through the responses and i do see the reasoning to have some background experience and checks done.
I started off filming and doing mostly tv work but in the world today its difficult to just get work so i was lucky to get some work exp a few years ago with a few different Photographers and only recently was i able to get a dslr. In the process of setting up a business i will be trying to offer package deals to try and gain business and work. By using both my skill in video and photography.
As i said my background is mostly tv but both tv and photography have there connections to each other so i have had certain training which can be adapted to photography to make the image technically correct while some have said i do have an eye for footage and photos it is something you have or you don’t have.I do see the points about have a level where you should be above this but that would be very difficult to set especially if you have to go and do another college course which in my case i can’t afford nor would be able to for a fair while. I do know some people who would say the are pro and have seen some companies online where the pro photographers images just don’t stand out as being technically or graphically beautiful which is something have the pro title would entail
hope this makes sense
AlexTo be frank Alex, not all of us are interested in going back to a college to gain a qualification!
Does the Minister of Finance have a qualification in his respective position?
Did DaVinci or Einstein have a diploma?
Just a group of people looking to regulation to safeguard their own positions.
Luis in my opinion said it as it is, in my view anyway.Not wanting to sound negative, but I think many couples planning on getting married need to be more fussy about their photographers work before hiring them for their big day. I’m an amateur & wish to remain so (even though I have done a few paying jobs over the years, mainly as favours). I agree with Gerry that the industry needs some regulation, but it shouldn’t be too restrictive.
The problem is that today, digital is so easy compared to film & equipment is relatively cheap, that anyone can just go out & buy fairly good gear & claim to be a professional photographer. They may be getting some income from photography jobs to fund their gear & this is fair enough, but by using the “professional” tag, they are misleading the public into thinking that they are competent in their photography.
Also, the photographer may be competent in a particular genre of photography (such as landscape, sport, macro etc..), but may not be competent in wedding photography. They may have a few sample photos which are good to show prospective clients, but this doesn’t mean that they are competent either.
A licencing system could be introduced, in which a recognised professional photographers body would test the competence of the photographer & check that they are legally compliant before they could work as wedding photographers & be certified.
This may not stop ALL of the cowboys, but it would give the couples a good indication on whether to hire a photographer for their wedding or not.mmmm why not just look at the way the IPPA works:
members choose categories to be listed under
must be fully insured
must be tax compliant
and has a body of work judged before they can become a member and as they gain experience and skill can put forward other panels to be judged for “promotion in membership level.
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