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Processing Snobbery
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Just to re-iterate I have a Holga plugin for PS why dont I sell or bin my film gear and just
PRETEND an image came from a holga?Just press a button here and there and violla . . . holga image . . .
Some people will… you choose not to… you gotta do what makes you happy and not worry about what other people think… let the force guide you.
I can’t bare portrait photos with skin from an android and eyes so sharp it would never be humanly possibly to have eyes like that… I can’t stand when people draw birds on digital images that weren’t there in the original… if put up for critique I will state my opinion… but hey… it ain’t my photo so whilst I won’t like it I’ll just have to live with it and be sure and do with my photos what makes me happy.
Some girls will, some girls won’t
Some girls need a lot of lovin’ and some girls don’t
Well, I know I’ve got the fever but I don’t know why
Some say they will and some girls lie[/quote]
How true :D
as far as I am concerned, I developed my own taste for something, while something else is still ‘in progress’
photography is art, not science. well has some ‘sciency’ bits in it, but it’s mainly down to creativity.
generally speaking, everyone is entitled to do what he feels right. but on the other hand if I feel like asking how he did it, he should not be afraid of telling the truth :D
I am thinking particularly of nature photography. that’s when I can’t stand massive PS work…I had often wondered about how people would view the use of photoshop, lightroom,paintshop etc. I guess I expected them to think it was cheating somehow, so one day I asked a friend (who has no interest in photography) what were his thoughts on it. He rekoned, You should think of it (photoshop etc) as a tool to help make the job easier. It doesn’t do the job for you. You still have to do the actual work yourself to achieve your goal. Using it incorrectly can ruin the job. As for the snobbery, It’s a bit like a carpenter saying that the chair he produced had no chiselling used. He used a penknife instead. Personally, I’d prefer to use a chisel as it would make the job easier.
Interesting replies…
Brian – Yes, I agree with that first comment, but a purist probably wouldn’t, and they’d probably be very cross you even mentioned something like that…
Jody – yes, I see that a lot too, no post processing, just a levels adjustment, of course it’s fine to say that, and lot’s of people don’t meant anything more than that, but this is where I’d maybe disagree with Alan, when he says ‘innocent declaration’ for some it might be, but I think Mick had it right when he used the word ‘betterist’ and maybe he’s right too when he’s say’s it’s more about how the feel they are perceived.
Love that avatar by the way Alan, is that a fraggle?
Dave – lol, love that quote, absolutely bang on and yes, I think so too, a lot have never seen the inside of a darkroom, but, I’d feel awfully cheeky saying that to anyone, especially when I’m so new to it all myself.
I don’t have any means of scanning negatives, so I don’t have any control over it.
Some I don’t do a lot to, others I do, put textured overlays and what not on them, why wouldn’t I do that, if that was how I saw it in my head before I took it?
But, it’s almost as if it’s like blasphemy or something to some people if there is any trace of processing at all, like how dare you shoot film if this is what you intend to do with it!I know when I’m scanning a print I almost always have to do something to get it to look like the actual print.
Joseph – there are processing presets in LR, things like BW high contrast, BW low contrast, so instead of going through the channel mixer in PS (or whatever prefered way of converting to bw) one click in LR does the job.
There are hundreds of presets, thousands even, lomo, Polaroid, sepia, ones with crazy names, pinhole, etc… I do use them, I might tweak them a bit too, I don’t feel there is anything wrong with using them, somebody who knows more and is much better than me at post processing made them. Great. But, some people seem to think it’s ok to look down their nose at somebody who uses them. Just because, it’s a preset, or a plug in, or whatever…Those text layers I use sometimes I do in PS, in layers.
Alan – I hope you didn’t think I meant you, I didn’t, I didn’t mean anyone here.
And, when I was talking about LR, I actually meant when using digital capture (I hate that word, but I’m struggling to think of a better one) I didn’t really mean slapping a load of presets or plug in’s onto a Holga neg scan.
But, there are heaps of different ways I could print a neg from a Holga in the darkroom, the print I sent you in the exchange was manipulated quite a bit, split graded and burned, etc. I’ve also made a lith print from this neg, and the two prints look completely different.
So, why a big deal to do that in LR or PS? Don’t you sometimes convert your scans to black and white?
If I make a bw print from a colour neg in the darkroom, does that make me very naughty?
Is it wrong to cross process slide film?I have no interest in Film v Digital, it’s a silly, silly discussion. I think anyway.
This is not a discussion of, process or not, or taste for different styles of processing. It’s about the betterist attitude.
Sorry it too so long to reply. At work.
It’s about the betterist attitude
Being honest, and this is not meant to be at all insulting, but do you not have better things to worry about… seriously?
Why worry about things that are out of your control and probably shouldn’t really affect you?
If someone is in your face on such an issue fair enough… if you’re browsing Flickr and someone has typed on their post “No processing” what’s the issue?
I’m sorry… I know you won’t like reading this… but as 451 has said to me in the past “I hear what you’re saying but I don’t understand where you going with this”.
Maybe I don’t either…
It’s not about what anyone has said to me or anthing like that, I’m not upset or offended. Just a bit, irked, I suppose…So, I just wondered what other people thought. That’s all.
I probably do have other things to worry about.Sinead I didnt think you were pointing the finger so to speak at me.
and I dont see myself as being a snob or purist regarding over processing film
I couldnt care less what people do with their images.I just feel like a bit of a hippocrate sometimes to be post processing film . . .
I suppose it is something I have to come to peace with on my own. . .
I actually like when someone posts on a film or digital generated image ‘no post processing’
then I know what that photographer and his camera alone [ and maybe a scanner :)] can generate.It is a bit like asking someone about their lens . . . “oh I like that lens what are the results like”
and they show you something that was manipulated severely and the person asking the qwestion comes
away thinking that that lens can work wonders. ok im waffling :lol:Very interesting thread. anyway 1 image 2 presentations, i like the second but it is not a true representation
of what came from the camera . . . again something I ahve to deal with.
Love that avatar by the way Alan, is that a fraggle?
That’s Beaker from the Muppets. Meeeeeep!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A
Alan.
I have stated that I did no post processing before.
In some cases I do believe that people do it as a form of boast, or saying that they’re so great cos they “got it right” in-camera.
A lot of the time I believe people say it so that people know. There’s a “tradition” of sorts (if it’s not too early to call something a tradition) on forums, flickr etc. of giving all the details of your pictures. i.e. shutter speed, aperture, ISO, focal length, processing.
Most of the time when people say they’ve only adjusted curves or whatever it is fairly obvious anyway. Telling people you’ve cloned out a lamp post may just be considered polite. And therefore people may wish to say, “I haven’t cloned out any lamp posts”. Or “I haven’t used any Lightroom presets”. They aren’t necessarily saying “I hate using Lightroom presets” just that they haven’t used any in this case.
Well i think that’s the first time I have ever been called a snob before :-)
Ok so, I’m guilty of saying from time to time on my pictures “straight neg scan”
For me the paper print is whats most important. I use scanned negs as a way of proofing my pictures and deciding which ones to take into a darkroom and actually spend time and paper to make a print
I find as a good guide that scanned negs that I have to do the least amount of processing on in PS are the easiest ones to print in the darkroom
By me saying “straight neg scan” all I mean is that the negative should be easy enough to print in the darkroom . Reason being is that it is normally because its got a good balanced exposure and a good amount of contrast in it that comes close to how I want the final printed picture to look like
Maybe I should just say nothing… or maybe I should just say I think this should be easy to print in the dark room, but then people would just call me a boaster or something…
Well that’s my reasoning for me saying such snobby things, take it or leave it :wink:
Over and out
MI don’t know where this is going at all,
particularly in relation to some of the ‘betterist’ comments-This is the digital age, and it’s taken for granted that no pixel is left unturned.
Unless stated otherwise.
Even in the documentary sections, advice is often given to clone out items that somhow offend the sensibilities of the critic.
So if it’s important to someone to get the result they want through photographic technique alone,
then I see no reason why it shouldn’t be entered into evidence.I really don’t see how it could be construed as offensive,
unless of course, they also state that all other approaches are inferior.Is this the case?
Regarding ‘boasting’, rather a lot of it goes on across the board;
every good picture posted is a form of a boast,
whether it includes a lamp post or not…joseph
Martin & bingbongbiddley I didn’t mean you either… I know your not being snobby when you write those things.
“unless of course, they also state that all other approaches are inferior.”
lots of people do think this is the case Joseph.Here’s a discussion I came across on flickr the other day, which got me thinking a bit more about it all. (for anyone who’s interested)
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootfilm/discuss/72157621295657833/Ah.. silly things bother all of us sometimes.. when silly things bother me I usually like to turn it into a PI Panto (a form of turning a negative into a positive, for me anyway)… maybe it’s a case of a problem shared is half the… (George Bush moment)… well, you know what I mean.
I often see things that make we want to start a thread in angst… like “why people create polls in the critique forum?” for example… I often suspect it may be to ensure they get plenty of comments, like that matters, and then when I take a deep breath and put my sensible hat on (I do have one) I think… “let ’em on”… “no skin off my back”.
I’m not too sure how you can take anyone too seriously on Flickr… I mean to even looking around in a group called “I Shoot Film”… it just feels a bit lame… now where is the “I eat too much group”… I need help?
J
irishwonkafan wrote:
Love that avatar by the way Alan, is that a fraggle?
That’s Beaker from the Muppets. Meeeeeep!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A
Alan.
Ah… Brilliant Alan!! hehe…
Yes, I may have over reacted a bit. Dave did a better job of explaining the point I was trying to make, I think. I’m not sure now what point I was trying to make… http://blurdotblog.com/?p=105
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