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Rates Question
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Hi, i am pricing a job to provide a selection of photographs of a fashion store’s interior and exterior for use on their website. What do I need to take into account with this? I am providing them with my commercial day rates but as the images will be on the website for quite a while, should this be taken into consideration and thus a higher charge or should it just be my day rates with postproduction, travel charges extra?
Currently working on developing a rates card and as i am fairly new to the industry, I am finding it difficult as to what to charge! Any help or advice would be great. THanks, EMCFirst of all this is interior / architecture photography, which is a subsection that is highly specailised, so make sure you have the right skills, equipment and software for this. remember there is nothing wrong with turning down work or referring it on to others, after all keeping a client happy and showing them you will only give them top quality work is much better than pissing them off by giving below par work. I actually do this a lot. I have clients who ask me to do head shots, press shots, ect I always pass these over.
anyway most people who commission work expect to be allowed do whatever they want with those images, and there are lots of photographer who have no problem with that. There for if you are to charge additional fees for additional uses and give them a more restrictive license you would want to be good enough or in some way tight enough with them, that they will not just go else where.
theoretically your fee should increase depending on the usage, term of usage, geography of usage. it all depends on the BUR, I would look up older posts on this that Ashley M has contributed too. he often puts in links to his own blog or other sites that explain pricing.
Good luck
EMC wrote:
I am providing them with my commercial day rates…
Did they ask you to provide them with this ?
Because I doubt it will be of any real use or value to them.Usually when clients ask us to produce & provide them with some ‘images‘, it’s because they want to ‘use’ them – so that’s what we would talk to them about and bill them for i.e. a fee for the use of our images.
The 4 main things that will therefore determine the ‘licence fee’ are:
1. Number of images they want to use.
2. Media use.
3. Period of use.
4. Territory of use.So in your case, the first thing you need to workout is what your basic production costs are likely to be i.e. your base rate for ‘standard use’ – which is known as your BUR (Base Usage Rate).
(‘Standard use’ is considered to be either 2 media for 1 years use or 1 media for 2 years use, in 1 country – according to the AOP.)Once you know what that figure is, you can then provide them with a quote based on that information – by clearly stating each of the above 4 things – and then negotiate the fee from there, for any additional use they may require over and above that – using the AOP’s percentage guidelines, which can be found in their book, Beyond the Lens – (Chapter 5).
Added Note: use this type of form to help avoid misunderstandings down the road whenever possible…
.. which can be found on the AOP’s website in their Document/Forms available to the public section.Thanks so much for the info and Ashley for the link to your blog etc, lots of great information there and just exactly what I have been looking for. Many thanks , EMC
Rate cards are out the window and have been for a long time. Charge an honest day rate and be sure to factor in plenty of processing time. Then move on and let the client do whatever they like with the images.
BarkerPhotographic wrote:
Rate cards are out the window and have been for a long time. Charge an honest day rate and be sure to factor in plenty of processing time. Then move on and let the client do whatever they like with the images.
Ye Right !! – just so long as you don’t produce any images they will want to use that much – because otherwise, you will be cutting your own throat.
Ashley wrote:
BarkerPhotographic wrote:
Rate cards are out the window and have been for a long time. Charge an honest day rate and be sure to factor in plenty of processing time. Then move on and let the client do whatever they like with the images.
Ye Right !! – just so long as you don’t produce any images they will want to use that much – because otherwise, you will be cutting your own throat.
If you don’t produce “images they will want ot use that much” you have not done your job!
BarkerPhotographic wrote:
If you don’t produce “images they will want ot use that much” you have not done your job!
Yes – but if a client said they just wanted me to provide them with an image for them to use in a small ad in their local newspaper – I sure wouldn’t be quoting them the same fee as I would if they said they wanted me to provide them with an image for them to use in Brochures, Billboards, Posters, Magazine ads, Newspaper ads, TV & on the worldwide web – throughout Europe, for the next 5 years.
Because if I did, I would have totally over valued what they where asking me to provide them with – which is an image for them to use to meet their needs. So one does need to take your client’s usage requirement into account, when quoting a fee; otherwise, you could be getting it badly wrong – by either over valuing or under valuing what they are asking you to provide them with.
Remember, there are more than 100 different ways to shoot any subject – so all images are not the same.
The images in my Before & After section should clearly show you this.
Same photographer, same camera system in a lot of cases, same subject matter, etc, etc – but two very different results.
One of the images will be of little value because no-one would want to use it – the other was of great value to the client, because they wanted to use it a lot. And as a result of them wanting to use the image a lot, in most cases, they where therefore prepared to pay a lot – and that’s how it works.The fee is therefore based on their use – which is the only true way to determine the value of what you are providing others with.
Assuming you do actually want to meet your client’s needs and keep them as clients for years to come.To put some meat on the bones here – this is roughly how the two quotes would look in the above examples i.e. the first quote based on what the client asked me to provide them with – and the second quote based on me assuming they needed me to produce an image for them to use in a major ad campaign throughout Europe, over the next 5 years.
Quote 1.
To produce & provide an image of [the subject matter] at [location or event name].
For exclusive use, for [the client’s name] to use this image for:-
Media use: Newspaper ads & Worldwide web only.
Period of use: 1 year (ends 30th October, 2012).
Territory of use: Ireland & the Internet only.
(BUR: £200.00 per image)Licence fee based on the above: £200.00
Quote 2.
To produce & provide an image of [the subject matter] at [location or event name].
For exclusive use, for [the client’s name] to use this image for:-
Media use: Brochures, Billboards, Posters, Magazine ads, Newspaper ads, TV & Worldwide web only.
Period of use: 5 year (ends 30th October, 2016).
Territory of use: Europe & the Internet only.
(BUR: £200.00 per image)Licence fee based on the above: £3,825.00*
Note the BUR figure is the same i.e. my basic production costs to produce ‘an image’ – however, the licence fee is very different.
Why ?
Because I am only quoting at this stage – which means ‘the image’ has not yet be produced.
So it’s the licence fee that will actually determine what I can afford to do and/or bring to the table to meet their needs.
Because that will be my budget – which should be inline with their budget i.e. what they are about to spend on media space over the next few years, in the various countries they are about to advertise in.So if I was producing ‘an image’ for them to use based on Quote 1’s information, then it would just be a basic shot that I would be thinking about.
If however, it was based on Quote 2’s information, then I would be thinking very differently – and the final image would look very different as a result.
Because the goal would now be to produce ‘an image’ which they would want to use for the next 5 years in various media throughout Europe, rather than ‘an image’ which would just do them for now.
And it’s the budget (their budget which the licence fee is equal to) that will help me achieve that goal – because I could now afford to bring a lot more to the table than I could if the fee was only £200.00.But here is the thing: lets say I sent them Quote 1 – based on what they asked for – and they said okay to that.
I then when ahead and produced ‘an image’ which they, after seeing the final result, wanted to use a lot more.
What would happen then ?
Well, because I charge for the use of my images, rather than for ‘my time’, then I would simply charge them more for the additional use of my image.
Which means the fee would go up in line with their usage requirements – a bit like you wanting to stay in a hotel for 2 nights now rather than 1 night. (More use of their ‘thing’ – which they have produced and are now providing you with, for you to use – will cost you more.)So my goal is to always produce images, which my clients will want to use more, than what they originally asked for – a bit like a hotel.
A win, win situation if I succeed – because if they get more, then I get more – which is only fair.Now compare that to a flat ‘day rate’ fee type pricing system and you should quickly see the advantages of using this type of licensing system, for both you & your clients.
Which is why most of the leading professional photography associations around the world, including the AOP here in the UK & Ireland, recommend it.
And it’s why having the ‘copyright law’ in place – to protect your rights to the images that you have produced and/or created – is so important to us all.Sorry for the long winded response here folks – but as you can see, putting a value on what we provide others with, is not that simple – but hopefully this information will help explain why you need to take your client’s usage requirements into account, when quoting a fee – and clearly state what that use is too – as it could make a massive difference.
(*This is just a suggested figure which was determined by using the AOP’s percentage guidelines – which can be found in their book Beyond the Lens – to give you an idea of what the image could be worth, if the above client & information was for real.)
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