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The question of no critique…
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Some fair points there Mick. Below comments are necessarily directed at you Mick,
just some general quick thoughts of my own :)Flickry and safe is definitely not what I want PI to be. But only you folks
can make sure it doesn’t become that…really. Alternatively if there is anything
I can do, please come forward with ideas. I’ll gladly listen.Honest criticism provided in a ‘respectful’ fashion is expected. Note respectful.
Also, if the requestor can’t take good honest critique then they shouldn’t be posting up
in the first place. Actually I think thats in the guidelines here on the site…You know, if the more experienced photographers don’t make an effort to provide or ask for
in-depth/insightful critique/discussion on their efforts then it won’t ever happen.
The site is what members make it.Personally, I’d like to see more serious discussions on photography itself. Some threads which
start out meaningful deteriorate into silliness far too often for my liking. Perhaps its time to
get heavier on moderation as was the case when the site started.
I know of some sites which remove any post which isn’t seen as contributing to the
forum itself. I hope that the day doesn’t come here when we need to start doing that.Anyhow, theres a few thoughts.
Discussion welcome ! :)Maybe if you view a picture and decide to leave no comment then leave a number from 1-10 with 10 being excellent. This would not take much time to do but its also a way of the poster getting some feedback. Just an idea I’m throwing out there.
Ach… this discussion comes up at least 3 times a year… the same people, the same replies… and at the end of the day, like the vast majority of discussion… nothing ever changes.
Those of us who have been around the longest, post the most and act sillier than silly always seems to come under the microscope.
And those who’ve rarely if ever bothered to write a critique whilst posting their portfolio, use the site as a publicity tool, use buy & sell to turn a profit, enter to win competitions before taking off for another year and those that come here to have all their questions to be answered and can’t even bring themselves to say thanks… well, nobody really bats an eyelid at them.
There’s too much expectation on those that say the most… to say the most… and those that say nothing… are given free reign to say nothing.
I’d just like to make the point also that PI isn’t just about posts/comments/critique.
There have been a lot of friendships and associations made here… internet or real… it matters not.
There’s a lot of goodwill that goes on behind the scenes here too.
There’s no such thing as a forum that is all things to all people.
You can’t have your cake buttered on both sides and eat it… as Wonka would say.
J
Very good thread Rob
I always try and post a reply to as much images as i can. This is now my one and only photo forum due to the quality of images, great banter and decent folk all round.
But I tend to be a bit bias when I chose to reply, as I see a lot of people that only lurk and post an image without ever having CC another members shots. I can name atleast 5-10 members in this bracket. On the other side of this, other members I always make an effort to reply to , due to the connection I have to them and the fact that they almost always comment on my shots. Its silly I know but every online place has these cliques.Dee
fan boy wrote:
You can’t have your cake buttered on both sides and eat it… as Wonka would say.
JHuh??
Critique – as we have no alternative category everything goes into the C&C section. When people don’t critique there’s a dropped bottom lip…by some. I’ve been critical of the “I like your picture, it’s nice” response as it isn’t critique, just an appreciation of sorts. To have a non-critique section might be a bone of contention as we’ve probably all seen those sites, Flickr included, which probably wouldn’t work too well.
This site works best due to its C&C approach. We’ll just have to accept that it isn’t clinically maintained by some members. We can make our own mind up who they would be and how to approach it ourselves, if it’s seen as a problem.
Châteauneuf-du-Pape…as nfl would say.
I’d agree with Mick451. There should be an intermediate and advanced section for those who belong in these catagories. As a beginner, I am quiet comfortable to have my photos in the critique section as I can get useful tips on how to improve my work, but it must be frustrating for someone who is advanced not to be getting anything useful from that section except “nice shot” etc. They have spent a lot of their time, money and effort on developing their individual styles & techniques, whereas a beginner like myself has not, and even may not continue in photography and move on to something else. I appreciate the advice and tips from the advanced people, but they should have a section of their own to post as Mick451 said, topics on how they go about their work in producing such top class images us beginners can only admire. I also think that if a member doesn’t post at least one comment or image in a month, they should be deleted from the membership list and have to re-apply for membership to the forum as a lot just view and move on and you don’t need to be a member to do that.
I don’t buy into the idea of categorising people based on level of ability or by profession at all.
Surely there’s more to photography than just pro or amateur, good or bad, right or wrong, charged or free?
Can photography not be all things to all people?
Can I not look at a photo and just enjoy it… without the need to pen the Secret of the Universe along with it?
If I want to give someone a photo for free is that not my entitlement? Does the satisfaction it gives me and the happiness it might give another person not make adequate payment? You’d be forgiven for thinking otherwise sometimes.
Can an amatuer not buy a big camera, shoot a straight horizon, be reasonably consistent or maybe do a friend a favour without the need to be told he can’t?
If someone wants to share the background to something does it have to be in a special forum, does it matter if it was comissioned, for publication or purely because it made them happy? I’d have thought that Joseph already does a pretty good job of this and that other people who’s names have been mentioned such as Ashley and Madeleine would usually be more than willing if asked. Maybe all people need to do is ‘ask’?
Should those that call for change and improvement not set a standard by getting their own finger out and doing something about it by way of example?
*Edit* The usual.
A couple of questions Miki g:
What criteria for categories? Who’s beginner, intermediate or advanced? Our own national federation, the IPF have difficulty with just intermediate and the open category. This could prove difficult to administer.
As regards the deletion from the membership list – who administers this and to what advantage? If I go on holidays for a month should I try to make a post to keep my searchable history or just accept that I have to start all over again? There’s no advantage in doing this.
I wouldn’t be in favour in categorising photographers, pro or amateur. There’s enough distinctions out there which are unfounded and defamatory on the differences, not many of which are based on the definition of professional. To suggest that we should have a panel for pros to divulge their techniques would be a short lived exercise. Not many contributers to this site offer their techniques or skills unless asked by first presenting what they’ve done…but that’s part of the current C&C element anyway.
Alan
Hi Alan. When I suggest different catagories, I do not mean that these catagories cannot be viewed by someone not fitting the criterea ie If you’re not pro you shouldn’t be here. My thinking on it is, if for example you are a landscape photographer who has been taking photos of a good standard for a few years and are very comfortable with your level of expertise, you could be classed as intermediate or advanced. People with the same skill level and experience in other areas such as portraiture, sport, nature etc would relate to you and your work a lot better when discussing an image posted by you, such as how it was processed etc. I don’t think it’s of any advantage to you if a beginner gives their advice on how they think the shot should have been taken or processed, but that’s not to say that their ideas are invalid or pointless. I think that the photographers themselves will know their own skill levels and will relate to others in the same catagory. When someone is highly skilled, such as the names mentioned, they could be classed (for want of a better word) as advanced. Their experience is invaluable and I believe that if they were to post an image, describe the lighting, composition, technique used, difficulty faced etc in producing such an image, it would be a learning experience for all. I don’t think that you should be barred from commenting in any catagory, but people with the same skill levels do relate to others with the same levels better. On the other point, a month might be too short, just a suggestion. It is just so that you would have a better idea of how many “active” members are on the site and maybe of no advantage.
Mick… being honest I find some of your points above mildly insulting.
People talk about silliness ruining threads… and then when we do try and get a reasonably decent chat going all of a sudden I’m being told “off to Flickr” along with suggestions that I am “idiotic” in what appears to me as a dismissive tone.
You still harp on about the Photoshop Challenge where you refused to share your PP… Jesus… a once of incident and you’re still making a mountain out of a molehill. The purpose of the PS Challenge is to share PP info… I don’t understand what it is that you don’t get about that?
Anyway… if that how it is, that’s how it is… I’ve not much more time for the old see-saw crap of the past. The idea of people disrespectfully disagreeing with you and then these multiple of quotes and attacking the bits you can… it’s just silly.
Have to admit I get very little from the critique sections anymore, find them quite boring. Same old things are said, and people keep posting pictures with the same issues ignoring what might have been said to them previously… Sometimes I think people just want a clap on the back…
If you want real critique or help groups of people should be getting together to meet up where they bring along some of their pictures and get feedback face to face. Looking at a 900 pixel wide picture is not that great and is not a way to see a picture properly or get so called critique…
M
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