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Value perceptions of photography…
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…or alternatively, “Educating the Client”
I just quoted for a particular assignment for a musician that is producing his own DVD. His response wasn’t terribly surprising, but nevertheless made me wonder. He said that “that’s a little bit more than I was expecting to pay”. When I enquired how much he had budgeted for photography he replied that he hadn’t really but that he was trying to keep costs down, as he was already spending at least €500.00 every time he hit the local recording studio!
So, what did I wonder, I hear you ask! :) Well, I wonder why buyers of photography place such a low value on photography. It’s not just musicians, but ordinary consumers as well. What do you say to people when they say you are too expensive? Do you try to educate them as to why it costs what it does? Or do you say something along the lines of “Come back to me when you get your images from “Joe Public” and want them “fixed”? How do you sell something like “Added Value” in imaging? Is this something that’s peculiar to the Irish market?
I’m not really looking for specific advice here, but more for general feedback on other people’s experiences.
Fortunately, I don’t make a living from photography (because my photographs are, typically, crap). However, working in professional services, I sometimes face the value for money question. More often than not I walk away and wait for them to chase (usually after they have been hurt by paying too little).
I normally have 2 other responses;
1. Ask them how they would make a living/run a business on less.
2. Remind them of the golfer (forget the name) who, when said of him that he was very lucky, replied: “The more I practice, the luckier I get”.I’m not really qualified to comment on this as I’m obviously not a professional but I can comment from the side of a consumer. I think there is a perception amongst the public that all a photographer needs to do is point and shoot. That is certainly the idea I had bfore I took an interest in photography. Also digital cameras are so idiot proof now that people are turning out nice pictures while just shooting fully automatic all the time. With websites offering very cheap printing costs, it must be difficult for people to see how the extra costs can be justified.
My family got a portrait thing done a few years ago and the price was basically a rip-off IMO. The fella had a studio in his gargage with lights and a backdrop and that and shot the portrait there. Now granted they came out looking alright, from a technical point of view but it is easy to see that smiles are faked and people are uncomfortable in the picture. I think a proper professional (somebody who could judge these as not great shots) would not turn out work like that and especially at the price that was charged.
There are plenty of people that offer a sub-par service but this is only sub-par in very minute details. For someone to really charge so much extra there really needs to be a big incentive for someone to pay that much extra.
Not even in portraiture work, but with landscapes (every one and the mother has shot this type of stuff), people charge ridiculous fees for framed prints. I can understnd that framing isn’t cheap but to carge 50 euro on top of that for a photo, I don’t understand…..
Not really sre where I’m ging with htis but I think I made a point in there somewhere.
I think people sometimes look at such costs without understanding what lies beneath.
If you’re paying a wedding photographer €1000 then the Average Joe is thinking “€150-200 for prints… that’s €850-800 profit for 4 hours work… WOW…. must get a cam”.
Fact of the matter is… the photographer could have an awful lot of additional costs that he/she needs to cover e.g. tax, rent & rates, insurance (of which there could be a few types to be paid premises/equipment/professional indemnity), equipment maintenance, advertising etc, etc.
But the simple fact is people can only see the €850 profit.
How often have you walked past the local photographer’s shop window and seen the 30-40 Confirmation Photos… all almost identical (hate to be a bishop). You’d have to wonder how hard this sorta gig is and what sort of moola could be made.
Everyone is different. Alot of people these days have digi cameras and think they can do just as good a job as the local pro….or that uncle bob can shoot their wedding & give great results. But then you have other people who value photographs & very much appreciate what goes into getting the shots, and yes, dont question what the charges are. They’re called ideal clients! I dont think it’s just Ireland, it’s everywhere from reading other forums.
I think the only way to get round it, is to try and market to the people you want. Setting a base price on your website for example, puts off some people who may not want to spend that much, so you dont have to get into the pricing debate with them…it doesn’t get that far.
As photographers here, we’re biased anyway, so it’s hard to judge. I’d be happy to spend 5k on wedding photography or a few hundred (or thousand!) dollars on a Peter Lik framed print…but that’s me and I understand what goes into it. I don’t think it’ll ever change.[/url]No point in trying to blame Joe-
average or Public-Now, photography is more popular and more easily accessible than ever before-
you can buy a picture for a dollar- and uncle Bob is happy to take that dollar-The business is changing, and maybe not for the better, on some levels-
There have been some terrible pictures taken-
supposedly professionally-
and they’re the pictures that everyone should be concerned about-
These days, the chances are that Uncle Bob is very capable of doing a good picture-
maybe not taking on a whole wedding, but would he want to?Better awareness of what makes a good photograph has got to be a good thing-
Nightmare clients have always been around-j
It comes down to the ‘ah sure, it’ll do’ mentality of the buyer.
If they see it as ‘only’ a photograph then there’s no value placed on it.A good photographer will have built up a reputation which can take years to develop.
If you’re only starting out then you don’t have that reputation to back up the price you put on your services, so haggling’s inevitable.
You just have to stick to your guns and maybe lose the job, or lower your price and have something for your portfolio which could lead to other better paid work.
I’d prefer the latter, and make every effort to make sure the client got what they wanted and I got what I wanted – and they probably wouldn’t be the same image ;)Certainly once a photographer has got some measure of success, and a reputation, they can start to increase their rates and be more choosey in their clients.
The ‘added value’ you mention is generally the ability of the photographer to ‘see’ things in a certain way.
I don’t think there’s much added value to photography from a technical level of expertise, a good amatuer photographer would be technically proficient.
If you’ve got a decent reputation then a level of technical expertise is taken as a given – you shouldn’t be surpised when you get a good shot, you should be surprised when you don’t. Really, there’s not that much to the technical side of things although it’s far too easy to get bogged down in the nitty gritty.What makes the difference (to me) in terms of ‘added value’ in having someone who produces consistently good results in getting the best out of the subject – landscape, portrait or whatever. Not only that but you also have to consider the photographic style of the photographer, anyone can produce acceptable results if they have some experience and decent knowledge of the technical side of things. Not everyone has a style that sets them apart as being a photographer of note, someone that people will seek out because they want that particular style. You can certainly get to the point as a photographer where you can not budge from a price, and happily lose the client cos they’re more hassle than they’re worth. Getting there isn’t easy though and there’ll be sacrifices along the way in terms of financial reward – otherwise known as opportunities to prove yourself ;)
But the simple fact is people can only see the €850 profit.
Aye, but even if it was two grand profit and you knew you were going to get what you wanted you’d hand it over with little to quibble about. I think a typical commercial photographer charges between €1000 and €2500 a day. That might sound like a lot but the marketing budget could be €50k – €100k, so even €2.5k is peanuts in the greater scheme of things if the client trusts the photographer to deliver.
you knew you were going to get what you wanted you’d hand it over with little to quibble about
I agree…. but I’d imagine that a lot of people have to operate within the confines of a strict budget. Photography could also have a priority in the grander scale of things e.g. (Wedding = Dress, Ring, Church, Hotel, Entertainment etc., Muscian = Studio Hire, Producer, Recording Muscians, Press etc.) and the photographer should understand that maybe the photos are not top of that list.
I think giving a client ‘options’ is always a good thing. Maybe give them 3 different prices, each with varying levels of deliverables and cost, assuming this is possible.
I’ve always found that when dealing with 3rd parties it’s good to be flexible. Make life easy for customers and you’ll reap the rewards further down the line.
BTW: I’m not a photographer in the €€€ making sense… just applying similar life experiences to a similar situation i.e. client/service-provider
I come across this all the time with my clients
I recently got asked to quote for doing a presentation for interim results for one of the 50 biggest companies in ireland
I told the client it was a weeks work and therefore X amount, she (working for an agency who organize the stuff for the clients) said to me oh no they will never spend that much. I say ok go somewhere else
following day she rings me and not only asks me to do the job but gives me 3 others to do too.
But there is sometimes a perception of value, where people have no concept of what it would cost to do a job. and then fix a price in their head / budget which is way too low. those clients tend to be the hardest work and the least satisfying.
One thing i learnt from a good friend of mine is price is NOT always everything. sometimes you have to charge more to be taken seriously.
If you are confident in your work, dont try fish for those clients that try to spend less than 50% of what it should cost and chase more of the others. any that want to spend above 50% of what the work is worth are worth chasing when you are starting out, then as you get enough work you can start to avoid the lower paying ones.
But the other thought is, if your just starting out ANY work is good work, as it puts food on the table etc. And although its nothing like you want to charge if its the only work around well thats what you have to do to put the food on the table. Otherwise go look for an office job with a salary.
Modern technology allows people to take acceptable images with their digicams, and as a result, the general impression is that photography is overpriced. In the face of this, the only differences that seperate the good from the bad are technical ability and “style”. Anybody can take a snap, but in my opinion, an understanding of composition, lighting and exposure, coupled with the ability to implement them into the image will alway command more money.
I’d imagine that a lot of people have to operate within the confines of a strict budget
Exactly.
But it’s the photographer’s choice as to whether they want to work within that budget.
No one’s forcing the photographer to work for less money.
It’s the same in any services industry, you’ll always get clients who’ll try to get things at a bargain price.
You either choose to deal with them or let them go, to do lots of fecky little hassley jobs or fewer better paid ones.
Rely too much on the bigger better paid jobs and if one doesn’t come along it can cause cashflow problems.
Rely too much on smaller jobs and it’s an awful lot of work to get in, complete and chase payment for.Only reasons I can see for lowering your price:
1/ You need the cash to alleviate cashflow problems.
2/ You really want to do a specific job because it’ll strengthen your portfolio and generate more sales.
3/ There’s a personal relationship with the client – family, friend, etc.Money can’t buy you talent or a good portfolio, but a good portfolio can bring in more money.
Lads.. I never said you should drop your pants around your ankles and bend over to suit a client.. I never mentioned dropping your prices either… what I’m saying is if it’s possible offer cost options.
Option 1 might be a week’s work €X per day providing A
Option 2 might be 2 week’s work €X per day providing A, B
Option 3 might be 1 month’s work €X per day providing A, B, CThat way you’re not sacrificing your rate but the client might choose an option with fewer deliverables to fit their budget.
Take a website… it could be one page, it could be 5 pages, it could 50 pages. It could be read only, it could have secure areas for viewing client specific info, it could have shopping basket functionality, it could have chat features etc. etc. But it all doesn’t have to be developed in one go. Granted, something like this is easier to provide options for as it can be approached in a modular fashion.
When I said “the photographer should understand that maybe the photos are not top of that list” what I meant was don’t get offended because people don’t like your rates just understand where some people are coming from… as opposed to feeling you have to “Educate the Client” as Thorsten says… or maybe just find some middle ground.
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