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Very disappointed
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I should have stuck to what little I knew and just gone with the Ilford HP5 400 B&W film…. but “NO”, I had to experiment :( I shot a roll of Kodak “professional” B&W film, the stuff that can get developed in normal colour processing (C41 I think it’s called??). Anyway got the scanned negs back today and to say they are flat is an understatement. Plus, there’s no noise? In comparison to the first roll which had golf ball size grain, these are pretty clean. So flat clean shots… not the contrasty grainy ones I was hoping for. Gutted :!:
ciaran,
Right, I’ve been asking the same questions of late, and have been told over and over that HP5plus, or a Tri-X are the way to go. Now if I can just figure out what I am trying to achieve with this underexposed grainy effect. It just sounds soooo mysterious. Would love to see you put something up. I am about to buy digital, but am tickled pink about film right now.Ciaran, it sounds to me like you got “exactly what it says on the tin”. The results you describe are what I would have expected from the Kodak chromogenic film, which is principally aimed at the wedding and portrait shooter who needs to keep contrast under control and grain at a minimum. If you want hard edged gritty black and white, Tri-X is a long time favourite, even though Kodak have “improved” the emulsion over the years. Ilford HP5+ and Fuji Neopan 400 or better still, 1600, would be excellent choices too, if you’re after a well defined grain structure. Keep in mind that the developer used and how it’s developed has a significant bearing on the outcome as well. If you really want to experiment, then try one of the more obscure emulsions such as those from Foma and Efke.
Yeah thats a dose Ciaran.
Personally, if I was to shoot black and white film I’d not use C41. Its not pure b&w and it often gives colour casts.
Just my two cents.
Flipflip wrote:
Its not pure b&w and it often gives colour casts.
Just my two cents.
Have to admit, that’s the strangest 2 cents I’ve ever heard! I’ve never had a problem with or heard of colour casts with chromogenic B&W emulsions. Can you expand a little more on this. I suspect that you may have had them printed on to colour paper – that’s the only situation I can think of that might result in colour casts. Also, what do you mean by “pure” B&W. Is it because chromogenic film doesn’t used silver and the negatives have an orange mask on them? The negative is simply a means to an end – an important means, no doubt, but nevertheless it’s not the end product. I don’t do as much black and white as I used to and I’m interested in some of the newer thinking around the medium with the advent of digital, hence my questions.
Think you may be right Thorsten, I had B&W file I needed processed and printed in a rush and ended up with a greenish/gey contrast over all the prints. When i went into the darkroom with the negs the difference was unbelieveable. The film was kodak tmax 100 btw
Personally I would suspect the scanning especially from a high-street shop.
Mark wrote:
Ciaran,
It’d be interesting to see what a frame looked like.
Cheers
MarkHere’s a shot straight from the camera/scan and then a photoshopped version of it. My problem with film is that there are just too many variables that are beyond my control. For one, I don’t have enough of a feel for how exposure effects contrast. Then I hand over all power to someone else for the developing and scanning. All in all, I don’t really find the film process that enjoyable because of it, especially when I get results back like this. How much of the flatness is down to me the photographer? How much of it is due to the film? Was it the scanning etc.
Here’s a shot from a previous roll of HP5+ which was pretty much what I was hoping for this time round, but didn’t come close to achieving.
Just a quick question Ciaran,
when shooting with the B&W film did you use any filters ?
Its been a while since I shot B&W but I always found that when shooting portraits, a yellow filter gave nice results, when shooting landscapes a blue or red filter would enhance the contrast.
When I shot without filters the results were indeed quite flat.Rgds
Kevin
thats a lovely shot on the hp5 and i’m not surprised you wanted that look again. try some more hp5 ciaran and dont give up. have a go with kodak tri-x too. test a few rolls of different films when you can afford to mess up and stick to what you know when you are doing something important.
Thorsten wrote:
Flipflip wrote:
Its not pure b&w and it often gives colour casts.
Just my two cents.
Have to admit, that’s the strangest 2 cents I’ve ever heard! I’ve never had a problem with or heard of colour casts with chromogenic B&W emulsions. Can you expand a little more on this. I suspect that you may have had them printed on to colour paper – that’s the only situation I can think of that might result in colour casts. Also, what do you mean by “pure” B&W. Is it because chromogenic film doesn’t used silver and the negatives have an orange mask on them? The negative is simply a means to an end – an important means, no doubt, but nevertheless it’s not the end product. I don’t do as much black and white as I used to and I’m interested in some of the newer thinking around the medium with the advent of digital, hence my questions.
I must apologise if I gave the impression of some technical know how on my part. I should admit right now that I have very little technical knowledge with regards to film and emulsions and what not!
The opinion I gave was from experience. In the past when I’ve got C-41 Black and white film devloped, Ive found it have slight colour casts and sometimes a little bit less contrast than I want. When I used other types of film I found they provided better results, i.e. more contrasts and no colour casts.
In retrospect, there could be any number of reasons why that was(the lab, my own personal error etc.). I was just giving an opinion.
Now thats my 4 cents. :wink:
Kevin, I don’t shoot with filters and considering how little film work I do, I can’t see myself investing in any. I realise with colour filters I can really boost certain colours to make the B&W pop, but even with the hp5 I was able to get far better results than I did with the Kodak. Anyway, I have the negs in with Conns Cameras to see if they can do a better job and I have a new roll of hp5 in the film camera, so we’ll see what happens next. Thanks for all the feedback in the thread, its been very helpful.
Thorsten wrote:
I suspect that you may have had them printed on to colour paper
This is very common with C41 BW film when it’s dropped off at the local consumer lab. It’s better to get only negatives and do your own printing on BW paper or scanning in B+W mode.
Note: I have only ever used XP2 so have no experience in Kodaks C41 BW films.
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