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Volunteering – can THEY own my copyright?
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I was selected onto the volunteer photography team for the Festival of World Cultures this coming weekend.
Volunteer means that I get a t-shirt and a pass and am scheduled with some other photographers according to my area of expertise that I’ll fill out on a form. No costs are covered in any way, no money changes hands, I just get to photograph some pretty good gigs.
Here’s an extract from their “Things to remember”:
– The Festival of World Cultures owns the copyright to the photographs, and unfortunately it isn’t possible to credit the photographers in our publications.
– Photographers can use their photographs but not for commercial use.There’s more in the way of guidelines, stuff I’m familiar with, such as documenting performers names, parents consent & release forms for pics of kids etc – standard fare [stuff that turns a fun experience into “work”].
But what’s your take on their ownership of copyright? Is this an interpretation of “compensation” i.e. t-shirt and pass entitling them to copyright?
Is it viable for me to hand them a form with my terms – i.e. ‘you can only use the pics to promote the festival’ type of thing? [as they hadn’t stated what the pics would be used for, just telling me that I couldn’t use them commercially]
Telling me I can’t use them for commercial purposes suggests that they may do so if they choose – I’ve no worries about promotional use for next year’s festival etc, but exploring other avenues of raising funds (or other aims) using my pics. And copyright ownership suggests perpetual, that they would license without having to inform me at any time.
My view would be that unless you explicitly transfer copyright to them, then you retain it yourself (irrespective of what the “Things to Remember” says).
However, I could be wrong.
I’ve got some more definition from them about what they’d use the pics for, but am waiting on another reply asking about what I would be actually signing (if anything – they sent a general form which is not a waiver or agreement of any kind) and whether they’d object to signing something from me.
stasber wrote:
Here’s an extract from their “Things to remember”:
– The Festival of World Cultures owns the copyright to the photographs…No they don’t. And they can’t. Unless they want to wait until you’ve been dead for
seventy years and your work becomes a free for all. Until such time comes around,
you retain copyright on your own work. Copyright can’t be bought, sold or transferred
no matter what they’re telling you. Licencing or usage rights are another matter, and
are always negotiable. The word ‘copyright’ is bandied about far too often by organisations
who don’t actually understand what it means.I remember a while ago I said I’d do a brief guide to copyright law in Ireland and how
it pertains to photographers. As soon as I have the time I will…Rob.
Rob wrote:
Copyright can’t be bought, sold or transferred
Hi Rob,
surely copyright can be assigned to someone else by the copyright owner – they then have the sole copyright rights.
This is separate from licencing, of course.– Frank
Rob might correct me here, but while copyright can not be transfered you can give someone an unlimited sole use licence which is similar to handing over the copyright. Copyright law is a little odd in Ireland compared to the rest of the world.
So as they’ve told me that the Festival ‘owns the copyright to the photographs’ and I turn up and take pics for them without actually having signed anything, can I still tell them that I’ll ‘assign them sole copyright rights’ (per Frank)? Or, them ‘having told me’ – i.e. the document they sent and that I quoted from – then I’m obliged to conform to that statement, as I’ve automatically ‘agreed’ to it by turning up & taking pics?
On another note I understood that – and I know it would ultimately come down to a signed contract – if a company hired me to shoot, say, their product, that they would own the copyright? Or is this also a case of ‘assigning copyright rights’?
Saying they (the Festival) own the copyright opens up a [can of worms :lol:] potential scenario such as passing on pics (mine as well as others) to third parties, promoters or agencies who want pics of their artists, without having to tell me about it, or ask me what I think about it, completely cutting me out of the loop (including potential further work). Example, a foreign artist asking for a pic as a souvenir of playing there, being given it, and then using it to promote a tour or album (i.e. commercial use that they’d earn a crust from). On a general level I doubt this would happen and that the pics will be used in relation to the Festival only, however, it’s a perfectly plausible concern.
oeb : I think copyright can be assigned/transferred. I also think Irish law has been brought in line with Europe via the Copyright & Related Rights Act, 2000 – so can’t really be much out of line any more.
stasber : If they have any sense (from their point of view) – then there’ll have to be something to sign re copyright. I think the festival also have their own problems re copyright, as many (if not all) the
performers will have their own restrictions on image usage etc.
Whatever happens, you can use the images you take for ‘non-commercial’ use – whatever that means.
Last but not least, when you are not in the role of Festival Photographer, you can take whatever photos you like, and use them without any FOWC-imposed restrictions.(also – you can add your information to the image metadata before gieing them to the FOWC)
However, I am not a legal expert – just a photographer trying to understand the law as it applies to me and my work.
they can’t automatically but i would be expecting some sort of form on the day, if you are bothered by copyright and other issues, be sure you are happy with anything you sign.
personally i wouldn’t touch this gig with a bargepole but i’m not goanna knock anyone that wants to do it.
/ot
i would love to have a proper legal opinion on this and photographers rights in general in ireland (i know about the digital rights website) if anyone wants to start a fund for legal advice or a test case, PM me as i would contribute financially.FrankC wrote:
oeb : I think copyright can be assigned/transferred. I also think Irish law has been brought in line with Europe via the Copyright & Related Rights Act, 2000 – so can’t really be much out of line any more.
Frank – good tip, thanks. link
FrankC wrote:
stasber : If they have any sense (from their point of view) – then there’ll have to be something to sign re copyright. I think the festival also have their own problems re copyright, as many (if not all) the
performers will have their own restrictions on image usage etc.That’s what I’m wondering too and still waiting for a reply to my question (would I need to sign anything and would they object to signing anything from me). The guidelines doc also mentions about checking in with house staff about ‘the artists wishes’.
FrankC wrote:
Whatever happens, you can use the images you take for ‘non-commercial’ use – whatever that means.
Last but not least, when you are not in the role of Festival Photographer, you can take whatever photos you like, and use them without any FOWC-imposed restrictions.This exactly is what I’m weighing up. Last year I spent a pleasant afternoon in the Pavillion snapping the Indian dance without being hassled. I also sneaked into the pit at the main stage by looking deadly serious and ‘busy’ (we’re all good that that eh!! – and this year I’ll have 2 bodies and a 70-200 L lens to swing about – surely I must be a pro like :lol:). I don’t know if they’ll up the ante on security or have any other restrictions in place. I would also get essentially ‘access all areas’ (and no pushing through crowds or squashed against barriers for available vantage points) and freebies into otherwise paid gigs (‘by the sounds of things’ – hope I’d assume right!).
FrankC wrote:
(also – you can add your information to the image metadata before gieing them to the FOWC)
Again I have no idea who would be doing the editing but it doesn’t take much to replace or to strip it completely.
FrankC wrote:
However, I am not a legal expert – just a photographer trying to understand the law as it applies to me and my work.
Thanks for the input ;)
Fintan wrote:
they can’t automatically but i would be expecting some sort of form on the day, if you are bothered by copyright and other issues, be sure you are happy with anything you sign.
It seems a fairly ‘lightweight’ setup in that much appears to be informal. They asked for volunteers maybe expecting enthusiastic hobbyists to jump at the chance (and many, it seems, did!). For many it’s a great opportunity, but if you’ve been around a bit you realise there are ‘what ifs’, and that it really does turn into ‘work’ after a while even if you mostly photograph what you want within their ramifications of what makes a good photo and what makes a bad photo, and according to their schedule.
stasber wrote:
Here’s an extract from their “Things to remember”:
– The Festival of World Cultures owns the copyright to the photographs, and unfortunately it isn’t possible to credit the photographers in our publications.
– Photographers can use their photographs but not for commercial use.Whether they pay you are not, it makes no difference here.
This is a written agreement they have presented you with and their terms are very clear.
If you except the work then you have agreed to their terms.
They will own your images and they can do what they like with them… which would include selling them on to others.Ashely – a mine of useful info as usual. Thanks.
Good tip on EPUK – link, leafed through some interesting articles.
My quote came from a ‘guidelines’ doc under the heading of ‘things to remember’ as opposed to a document entitled ‘agreement’ and ‘things to be aware of’ or ‘what you are agreeing to’ (if you see where I’m coming from). But all the same it is a written form clearly stating their intent.
I’m waiting to hear back from them regarding my questions on this topic and might give them a call about it. For my part it largely depends on what I’ll be asked to physically actually sign (no mention of this so far) and/or whether they would be prepared to sign a document I would present to them.
The more thought I’m giving this the less I’m tempted to just ‘probably go with it’ (as was my initial take) simply because if a sticky situation arose I’d potentially have absolutely no leg to stand on by the looks of things.
Fintan wrote:
they can’t automatically but i would be expecting some sort of form on the day, if you are bothered by copyright and other issues, be sure you are happy with anything you sign.
personally i wouldn’t touch this gig with a bargepole but i’m not goanna knock anyone that wants to do it.
This would also be my opinion. You can legally sign over anything to anybody …… or in this case probably a company with little or no assets – property, stocks and shares, power of attorney, music rights, business, etc. – ……. its all above board if you sign. I assume copyright of your photographs is no different. I would tell them to “stick it” in bold writing. This is exploitation at its best in what has proven to be a nasty and sometimes dirty industry ………. its “use and dispose” with the attitude that “we wont be sued and if we do we fold the company and disappear and ressurect in a different manner and name and usually an individual does not have the money or know how to fight us in court”
Hi Gerry,
I would agree with you if this was a commercial event.
However, the FOWC is a non-profit event run largely by volunteers, and funded by sponsorship.
Most of the events are free to attend, and most of the people directly involved are unpaid volunteers.On that basis, it’s slightly different from the all-too-common “rights grab” scenario.
Still, I think they need to think through a bit more carefully how they handle the photographer’s copyright issue.
My own view is that they should compile an acceptable form of licensing/rights assignment for each photographer to sign.
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