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Volunteering – can THEY own my copyright?
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A lot of good points made – in the end, it boils down to what the photographer chooses to accept.
Personally, I wouldn’t do voluntary (i.e. unpaid) work under these terms for a commercial venture, but do regard the FOWC differently.
In the end, I would avoid getting to legalistic here – as it’s a volunteer opportunity, rather than a commercial one. That’s the whole point of being a volunteer – you give something away for nothing e.g. your time, your photos etc.
Lastly, the FOWC itself has had to sign binding contracts with many (probably most or all) of the artists performing. These will have imposed their own restrictions ont he FOWC. I suspect that is the main reason they want/need to keep control of the photos.
Even as a volunteer, I think the terms could have been very different – even fair.
I would have expected – the photographer retains all copyright, but licenses FOWC to use the images as they need. That way, FOWC can print/distribute the images for publicity and such, while the photographer still retains copyright and commercial license for future use of the images.
I think their terms are totally unfair in regard to the photographers.
Ultimately, each photographer must make their own decisions, and no matter what, I hope that everyone enjoys the event.
Frank – if they had to sign binding contracts with artists then they’re creating a fuss for themselves by not saying anything at all; i.e. along the lines of ‘we own the copyright because…’ or ‘due to… we require copyright’, i.e. being transparent about it. It would certainly help point an accusing finger elsewhere!
Paul – I’m with you on that one and would have thought the same sort of arrangement but as they’re sticking to their guns, there may be more to it – someone who doesn’t understand what they’ve said, or maybe someone who knows exactly. But for what it is and taking everything into account, it’s not worth getting into a bother about; they’re not helping themselves by being evasive.
On the up side I’ve just confirmed a (paying) job for the main stage on Sunday; an artist asked me a couple of months ago and re-confirmed just now. And there’s no copyright issues anywhere to be seen you’ll be glad to hear :lol:
stasber wrote:
Frank – if they had to sign binding contracts with artists then they’re creating a fuss for themselves by not saying anything at all; i.e. along the lines of ‘we own the copyright because…’ or ‘due to… we require copyright’, i.e. being transparent about it. It would certainly help point an accusing finger elsewhere!
Yes – you’re right. I intend to write to them after the festival (guess they’ll be too busy just now) and put some of the points raised here to them. Suggest anyone who feels strongly enough about it does likewise.
Other than that – hope the weather is good for the weekend. Don’t think my camera is waterproof.
Separately – something Rob said about writing a guide to copyright also sparked an idea. Much of the information which is available online, relates to the US or the UK (similar, but not the same as here). I wonder could a group of people (i.e. us) try to put together a reasonably definitive guide to the law and photography in Ireland.
This could cover :Copyright
Creative Commons licensing
What you can and can’t photograph
What to do if your rights have been infringed
What your responsibilities are
Model Releases etc.Apart from taking a legalistic approach, it could also give practical advice on dealing with copyright infringements etc.
This could maybe be managed as some form of moderated Wiki ?
Anyone any opinions on this ?FrankC wrote:
stasber wrote:
Frank – if they had to sign binding contracts with artists then they’re creating a fuss for themselves by not saying anything at all; i.e. along the lines of ‘we own the copyright because…’ or ‘due to… we require copyright’, i.e. being transparent about it. It would certainly help point an accusing finger elsewhere!
Yes – you’re right. I intend to write to them after the festival (guess they’ll be too busy just now) and put some of the points raised here to them. Suggest anyone who feels strongly enough about it does likewise.
Other than that – hope the weather is good for the weekend. Don’t think my camera is waterproof.
Separately – something Rob said about writing a guide to copyright also sparked an idea. Much of the information which is available online, relates to the US or the UK (similar, but not the same as here). I wonder could a group of people (i.e. us) try to put together a reasonably definitive guide to the law and photography in Ireland.
This could cover :Copyright
Creative Commons licensing
What you can and can’t photograph
What to do if your rights have been infringed
What your responsibilities are
Model Releases etc.Apart from taking a legalistic approach, it could also give practical advice on dealing with copyright infringements etc.
This could maybe be managed as some form of moderated Wiki ?
Anyone any opinions on this ?This is a great idea, a wiki may not be the best idea. If needs be however I can put together some kind of content management system for it (I would also be happy with it being hosted here in case I fell of the earth or something)
This was done exceptionally well and comprehensively, by a Lawyer/Photography at a meeting I think you may have attended last December ?
Must dig out my notes and I think the presentation is online somewhere also.
T.
Frank- I’ve been keeping an eye on the weather forecast too ;)
The guide would certainly be a great resource – as you say US or UK law may be ‘similar’ in some areas but when it comes to the bone ‘similar’ doesn’t really stand up in court eh. All I can say is thank God this isn’t the US – I’d probably have had a lawsuit out against them by now and they would be counter-suing me I bet! :lol:
“Want to know how you can you get invaluable work experience … not to mention getting your hands on a goodie bag with lots of cool stuff??” 8)
“It’s simple; all you need to do is sign up to be a volunteer over the Festival Weekend and you will get all this and more.” :twisted:
“A big thank you to everyone who has expressed an interest in becoming part of the Photographers team for 2008, we received an overwhelming response …. We are no longer accepting submissions for 2008.” :shock:
“From October 2008 programme submissions will be accepted for Festival of World Cultures 2009. Due to the high volume of submissions that are received each year we cannot always guarantee a response to your submission, but please know that your email will be passed onto the appropriate person.” :twisted:
:roll:
Very interesting topic and great input – so forgive my less knowledgeable input but just wondering
If you are employee of a company does the company own copyright automatically?
maybe thats the approach FOWC are taking – i know its volunteering, but they look at it as payment in kind giving you closer access to the performers and a chance to shoot the event – plus you get A T-Shirt Wow :) :)
having said that – if you are not signing anything who says that you ever saw anything ;) – should have kept quiet with them :) :(
JMac-2006 wrote:
If you are employee of a company does the company own copyright automatically?
It depends. If taking photographs is part of your job, then yes, the company automatically own the copyright. There may be circumstances where this is not the case, but more often than not, if you’re an employee, then they have copyright.
JMac-2006 wrote:
having said that – if you are not signing anything who says that you ever saw anything ;) – should have kept quiet with them :) :(
That doesn’t work. Just saying you didn’t read the agreement does not give you any extra rights. They have put the terms in writing. It is up to you to read and agree to those terms. Not reading them is not a way of getting around that clause.
The latest from the FOWC – looks like a relaxation on the various issues :
For those of you who are were at the meeting, the Festival’s official standpoint on copyright/ownership is as follows:-
We endeavour to credit photographers were possible, however in our experience with the press over the years, they rarely ensure that the correct accreditation will be on the photograph. It is very difficult to ensure correct credit will be give and as result we can’t guarantee photos sent to press will get credited.
However, photos used on our website and in any festival showreels that we use for promotional purpuses will be credited, so there will still be a
place where you can direct people to your work.You are also free to use the photos in your portfolio and on your website.If you are planning on using the photos for commercial purposes, just inform us before hand. This is more of a formality, just to give us a heads up so we know what images are in use and when.Thorsten wrote:
I came across this link today regarding the importance of licensing and thought it would be a useful addition to the wealth of knowledge which has already been disseminated in this thread.
FrankC wrote:
The latest from the FOWC – looks like a relaxation on the various issues :
For those of you who are were at the meeting, the Festival’s official standpoint on copyright/ownership is as follows:-
We endeavour to credit photographers were possible, however in our experience with the press over the years, they rarely ensure that the correct accreditation will be on the photograph. It is very difficult to ensure correct credit will be give and as result we can’t guarantee photos sent to press will get credited.
However, photos used on our website and in any festival showreels that we use for promotional purpuses will be credited, so there will still be a
place where you can direct people to your work.You are also free to use the photos in your portfolio and on your website.If you are planning on using the photos for commercial purposes, just inform us before hand. This is more of a formality, just to give us a heads up so we know what images are in use and when.Nice one Frank – I’d like to see them say how the images will be used, and how they won’t (i.e. passing on to third parties other than press or specific to promotion of the festival).
Ashley wrote:
Thorsten wrote:
I came across this link today regarding the importance of licensing and thought it would be a useful addition to the wealth of knowledge which has already been disseminated in this thread.
One thing that article prompts actually, is newspapers that today sell photographs that appeared in print. On the strength of Frank’s latest update I don’t see the festival using IPTC usage rights terms stating ‘single use only absolutely no resale’. The paper, if it chooses, could sell your pic without further ado, it seems. I’ve not tried to buy one so don’t know if I’d get a reply to say ‘sorry we can’t sell you that one’. I might try it out after the festival, see how it goes.
Well it was already mentioned but I think that what they were doing were giving you notification that you weren’t going to be the copyright owner of the photos you took. As you are being employed as a photographer under section 23 of the copyright and related rights act 2000 I’d imagine they’re automatically the copyright holder unless you come to an alternate agreement. You’d still have the paternal(?) rights but that’s it.
I’m guessing the whole reason they chuck that in there is to try and make people aware of it so they don’t have people trying to hassle them over photo uses in promo vids etc.
I’m no lawyer but that’s the way I see it.
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