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What to sell for.
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I have been emailed by an insurance company from Australia who have seen one of my pictures on Flickr. They wish to purchase the exclusive rights of the image for a ad campaign :lol: :lol: . I am fairly new at this only have the camera a couple of months so I am chuffed to death. They have asked for the image in raw format that is no problem. They have also asked how much for the image. I would also have to agree that the image would not be passed on to any other third party.
I have no idea as how much to charge any ideas.
Is it normal for a photographer to give up his rights on a image??
Any help would be welcome.Thanks
Bernard, please give us a link to the image.
Have to fly now – I’ll get back to you in the morning.
But don’t give away the full rights to the image without receiving a very good price.Congratulations. However I would be carefull – if a buyer asks for exclusive rights that doesn’t mean he also gets the copyright, it just means you won’t be able to sell the image to another party for a timeframe you have to agree on with the buyer. Exclusive rights are usually very expensive, depending on how they will use the image I would suggest an amount from around 2000.00 upwards. The sale of the copyright of an image happens sometimes but most image buyers don’t go down that road because this really costs them.
What I find strange is that they want the RAW file (a 16bit TIF is what I give away if a buyer wants the highest quality) and I feel that they are aware you’re an amateur who isn’t experienced in doing business which gives them the chance to get some exclusive rights for almost nothing. Unfortunately this happens reguarly as most amateurs are happy to get published and don’t care much about the money.
Hope that helps – let me know how it worked out.
Carsten
I think you could easily add an extra zero onto 2,000 yoyos for an advertising campaign.
Probably more depending on various bits and bobs.You will need to know the following:
How long does the exclusivity last?
Typically exclusivity can be for 3, 6, 9 months or 1,2 or 5 or more years: giving them exclusivity is not the same as handing over the copyright.
What they want is the exclusive use of the image for a set time period, after which their right to use the image expires.
You still own the image, you just can’t sell it again or let anyone use it during that time period.They may just want exclusive use of the image within Australia, so ask them what territories they want exclusivity in.
If they just want to use it in Australia and it’s a massive success you can renegotiate rights for other territories.
If they do just want exclusivity in Australia then you’re free to sell rights for it in other countries, as long as you ensure by agreement that such use doesn’t infringe on the previous commitment to the Australian Agency- an ad agency in the UK using it for entirely different promotion, but it appearing in Australian press ads. you know what I mean.The other thing is what media do they want exclusivity in: print, web, CD/DVD covers, brochures yadda yadda.
You can negotiate for each usage in each medium – say 30,000 brochures is X amount, 6 half page press ads is Y amount…etc.
Or you can do an Advertising package – all media covered.Just did a Rights Managed search for a random Irish Landscape image with Photodisc..rolling fields, stone walls, not particular good TBH.
Library Agency chosen within Photodisc was Stone: industry sector the image would be used to promote was Food.
Rights for 1 year, using their Advertising Package, in just Australia comes to 23k.Just did a Rights Managed search for a random Irish Landscape image with Photodisc..rolling fields, stone walls, not particular good TBH.
Library Agency chosen within Photodisc was Lonely Planet: industry sector the image would be used to promote was Retail Stationary -Calanders, Cards, etc.
Rights for up to 5 years, using their Advertising Package, in just Australia & Ireland comes to around 50k.Neither of those quotes included exclusivity.
Now, i know you’re not Photodisc, or Lonely Planet or Stone images, but don’t sell yourself short cos you can be sure they’ll be making on whatever you agree and adding something on top when billing the client – typically 17%-25%.
I managed to sell an image on Flickr for use on a book cover, 5,000 edition run, for use in one European country for one year, for ?400 or so.
So, the ad and design agencies know well what to expect if they’re any way reputable.Anyways, something for thee to think about.
No harm in registering with Photodisc, it’s free, and searching through some rights managed images and trying out the different pricing options. It’ll give you a feel for what it’s possible to charge, you just have to figure out what they’ll probably accept as being reasonable.If they’re expecting iStock $10 prices tell them to go bite the big one.
Very good and detailed advice from Mick there-
However, there are a few other things to consider-Its possible that these creatives are going straight to flicker in order to circumvent the usual channels-
and they might not want to pay the same price to an individual as they would pay to an agency-Typically, the photographer’s cut might be 50% or less, of the numbers quoted above-
and those prices are always given as full price-
often large discounts can be negotiated,
and with more people finding images on flicker and elsewhere,
those discounts are bound to increase-But its useful to know those rates,
so that you can begin to calculate your own discounts.Its down to your skill as a negotiator now-
We don’t know the image,
but its possible there is a shortlist,
and the cost of the image is an important consideration in the marketing mix.Mick’s numbers are good,
but realistically,
I’d say you’re looking at somewhere between 25-50% of those numbers, tops-And even then, its possible that they’re expecting to pay less by sourcing their images themselves,
through flicker-However, these are only my opinions-
you’re on your own on this one-Hope you keep us informed-
Besst of luck-
j
Doh!
Can’t believe I forgot to mention agencies fees, I’m such a forgetful old arse.
At a minimum they usually take 40% and it’s not unknown for some of them to take 80% (mostly it’s niche stock libraries like iStock which take a larger fee).
Photographers who generate good sales can negotiate better deals for themselves.JB’s right, as usual, if a regular stock photographer is getting 50% of 20k of rights sold you would be looking at 10k max.
Once you find out exactly what the rights are that they want you could use photodisc to roughly price things for a similar image with similar rights criteria.
You shouldn’t feel at all uncomfortable asking for 25%-40% of the photodisc prices.
Just remember, you can’t haggle your price upwards so set yourself a price range you’re comfortable with and work them within that.
Make it clear in any documentation – emails/invoices/etc – exactly what rights they’re paying for and the duration.Last thing, Carsten’s right, nobody gets a RAW file unless they send an arm and a leg in the post, preferably ones that have been touched by Midas.
Best of luck.
Mick.
OMG thanks Mike, and all. I was thinking ?500-?1000 for the image. Carsten as an amateur I wouldn’t have a clue as to the in’s and ots of the business. This is a hobby which I am only getting into. I only have a dslr for three months now. I have no real problem with them requesting the raw image, I am sure they could a lot more in the processing than I am capable of I just cant find the time to get stuck into CS3.
I can’t see what their attraction to the image is. They want to use it in a corporate brouchere.bernard0368 wrote:
They wish to purchase the exclusive rights of the image for a ad campaign :lol: :lol: .
bernard0368 wrote:
They want to use it in a corporate brouchere.
Two different things there,
I’d say that the numbers Mick conjured up don’t necessarily apply-j
I just took the Corporate brouche as been and ad campaign. I could be wrong.
the reason they have picked your image through flickr, is because they know they will get it for much less than going to a stock agency
the decision you have to make it, do you want to earn maybe 1K for the image or do you try for more and they just go get a different one from flickr for less
A decent sized ad campaign involves billboads, press ads, flyers, radio, tv, web, yadda yadda.
Usually a pretty big spend, and if you were selling an image that was to be an iconic part of that campaign then yeah, there’s a lot of money involved.A brochure, well, on its own that’s not an ad campaign..it’s just collateral marketing bumpf.
Could be just a filler image to go inside, could be a cover image.
Far less money for something as simple and straight-forward as that.A royalty free image for something like that from a decent stock site is around ?350.
They’d download a HiRes jpeg and could use it any which way they want, within limits, in any medium with no exclusivity.
Surprised they want the RAW.For Rights Managed, for 1 year as a full page brochure cover for the insurance market with a 50,000 print run in just Australia is about ?2.5k on photodisc.com – non exclusive. Take away the agency’s cut of typically 50% and you’re left with just over a grand.
For the same image to be used as up to a quarter page image somewhere inside a brochure with the above print run is around ?800, minus 50% agency fee leaves you with about ?400 – non exclusive deal.You really need to find out exactly how and where the image is going to be used, in what media, how big any print run/media usage is, how long they’ll have the image in circulation and in what territories. When you find all that out only then can you give a quote that reflects the images value to them. As you can see, there’s a big difference in how many rights of copy they want to make use of and that’s reflected in the wide disparity of potential earnings. Quoting ?10k for a brochure filler and they’ll laugh out loud, quote ?350 for a mass media ad campaign and they’ll laugh out loud for a very different reason.
Mick.
I use alamy’s price calculator for stuff like this – http://www.alamy.com” onclick=”window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry Folks I have been away only just back, Thank you all for the help esp. Mike. I have asked for a ?1000 and they have agreed. I am very happy with that. Just waiting on the paperwork from their side and we will see what happens from there.
They are using the image in a corporate brouchere which will be distributed to all customers who take out car and home insurance. They promised me a copy. Any I am happy with the result again thanks Mike for the comprehensive and very enlighting replies.Congratulations Bernard!
Would you tell us your flickr address and what photo they bought of you?I think I found it… :mrgreen:
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