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What would you consider a day rate?

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What would you consider a day rate?

  • Mikeanywhere
    Participant

    I need some advice….

    I have an interesting opportunity where I will designated a photographer for a sporting team covering all their events.

    My dilema is what to charge. Is it best to charge a daily rate (which I thought was the best way to go forward) or do it on a picture basis? Obviously I would also cover myself that if additional expenses are incurred that they also cover those. The team are aware of this and are more than happy to go with this but I need to go back with a figure so we can put it all in writing.

    If it is daily, what would a decent rate be considered?

    Thanks for looking and any advice you can provide.

    Mike

    stcstc
    Member

    Be careful with daily rate, as this tends to imply contract for work.

    In general with a contract for work the employer owns the photos

    if you charge per image its a lot simpler to sor out the rights to the images. and you can then control what they do with them etc

    KPM
    Participant

    There are pro & cons to this, as Steve mentioned, contract work could imply that they own the photographs, however, if you operate on an image sold basis they could decide they only want one image from a day of shooting, or worse still, none !!

    Another option is to charge a lower hourly rate for attendance, and then to stipulate the charges per image usage. That way your expenses have been covered (don’t forget to include post-processing in the charge), and then they can pay depending on what images they want to use. This way you can retain ownership of the images.

    If you have no issue over ownership of the shots, just go ahead with the “higher” daily rate, but again, remember to include expenses such as mileage and also any time spent post-processing.

    From what I know (and I’m open to correction here) there is no standard hourly / daily rate for photographers as some of the more established ones can charge huge fees, while those who are relatively new on the scene have to be content with lower rates. Remember however at the very least cover your costs and ensure that you are getting a minimum hourly payment for your time. This will be up to you to decide what you should get, or, what you would settle for, but never go below that as you could get caught up in supplying lots of work for little return and it can be very hard to up your rates.

    Rgds

    Kevin

    Thorsten
    Member

    stcstc wrote:

    Be careful with daily rate, as this tends to imply contract for work.

    Steve, I’m curious as to what basis you have for this being the case. By charging a day rate, it doesn’t change his status of being an independent contractor to being a direct employee.

    stcstc wrote:

    In general with a contract for work the employer owns the photos

    It all depends on what’s in the contract (yep, I know you said “In general”). My take on it is that “in general” (i.e., unless stated otherwise in a contract) the photographer owns the images. (Bit of a glass half full, glass half empty scenario I suppose).

    stcstc wrote:

    if you charge per image its a lot simpler to sor out the rights to the images. and you can then control what they do with them etc

    Again, I would tend to disagree with you on this one. I personally think it would become a major headache for both parties if it was a “per image” contract.

    I would suggest you charge a “creative fee” plus expenses and that the creative fee is based on a “per event” basis rather than some sort of day rate and let the club have usage rights to every image (I imagine you’ll be shooting a lot, given the fact that it’s sports related). Semantics? Maybe! At the end of the day, it all hinges on what sort of a contract you agree. Determine in advance, the limitations of use and agree that additional licensing fees may be payable for usage outside of those limitations.

    You could stipulate that the event fee covers x-hours of coverage after which an hourly rate kicks in. This will ensure that you don’t get into a situation where you’re left hanging around all night because of some delay or other unforseen event, no fault of yours.

    stcstc
    Member

    Thorsten

    If you are a contractor in the IT industry for example, the code you write does not belong to you, it belongs to the employer.

    If you get a contract to write a piece of code then its different.

    so if you are employed for a month as a contractor, ie your paid a rate per day/week/month or whatever the work you do is generally owned by the employer.

    thats what i was saying and I belive it is true of most industries

    For example I would quite often employ a camera man to shoot HD video for me, he gets paid per day, and does not own any of the rights to the footage. But if i commission someone to go produce some video for me, then that is their footage and they are basically giving me a cost for use

    fstop89564
    Participant

    I realize our laws are differant between here and there but we hire freelancers all the time both for Stills and video.
    We give them a daily rate for 8/10 hours and then time in a half after that.
    None of the footage or stills they do for us belongs to them it belongs to which ever network/website they are shooting for, another words at the end of the day they turn everything over to us………

    KPM
    Participant

    The last time I was hired to cover an event I agreed costs in advance.

    I split the proposal into three specific items.

    1. A set charge for photographic services, based on an hourly rate to include travel time and post processing.
    2. Travel expenses / mileage etc.
    3. Set prices for use of images, supplied in both hi-res & lo-res format. – I included generous discounts for multiple image requests.

    They were very happy to go with this, although not all customers might be.

    This way, when contracting me, they were contracting specifically for my services rather than the final images.

    Realistically I had no real issue over ownership of the images in this instance, but I prefer to operate on this style of template for all jobs in case this issue ever arises in the future.

    Rgds

    Kevin

    Mikeanywhere
    Participant

    Thank you everyone for the feedback so far.

    A certian amount of the images are being provided to the club for their PR activities (versions & qty already agreed) but the rest I am being allowed to sell with a % (yet to be agreed) going to the club too- that way both parties win. The team has also agreed verbally this afternoon that I keep copyright to the images.

    I do understand about the daily rate being for a certian time and anything thereafter allow a certian hourly rate – I hadnt really thougt about that but it seems a fair request to make.

    Again, thank you for the info.

    Mike

    GCP
    Participant

    Dont know if this is of any help to you, but this is how I charge for Commercial work;

    Fees and Pricing for Commercial and Industrial Photography
    Commercial & PR photography break down into 4 parts as follows;

    1) Photography Time

    2) Retouching (if required)

    3) Materials, Props, Travel charges, expenses, etc.

    4) Display Prints.

    Photography Time

    Travelling Time (from & return to Studio) ?55.00 per hour
    1st hour Photography and/or preparation ?75.00 per hour
    Half Day Rate ?460.00
    Full Day Rate ?800.00

    Retouching

    Images can be retouched to client’s requirements. This is charged at ?80.00 per hour. A more exact quotation can be given for each project at time of order. All digital images are supplied to client as high-resolution JPEG or PSD files (and sized for use) on CD, together with a
    contact sheet. CD’s are charged at ?25.00 each.

    Material, Props and Travel Charges

    Travel is charged at ?1.25 per mile (round trip) Material, props, expenses, etc are charged at cost price plus a 10% handling charge.

    Display Prints

    Prints are charged at normal print prices with a 10% discount on quantities of 7 or more of any one print. (Must be same size also)

    Prices are subject to VAT at 13.5% (Framed prints are subject to VAT at 21%). Delivery is charged at cost.

    Mikeanywhere
    Participant

    Thank you Gerry,

    That was a huge help :D

    Mike

    Thorsten
    Member

    GCP wrote:

    Display Prints

    Prints are charged at normal print prices with a 10% discount on quantities of 7 or more of any one print. (Must be same size also)

    Gerry, thanks for posting so much details. I’ve been trying to develop my own pricing model and am pleased to see that I’m not a million miles away from this. Always comforting to know I’m going in the right general direction. One question on your print prices. When you say “prints are charged at normal print prices” I presume you mean the price that you would normally sell prints for rather than the price that you pay to have prints done for you (i.e., cost price). I know that sounds like a dumb question, but would be obliged if you could clarify this for me.

    seanmcfoto
    Member

    Gerry,
    I’m sure that there’ll be loads of others thanking you for this too.
    Good to meet you over the weekend too.

    GCP
    Participant

    Thorston,
    yes, they are charged at the price I retail them at. I’ll add the reprint price now also. With pricing I try to be in the average or mid point of the local Galway marketplace. I am more expensive that about 60% of the market, about the same or there about as about 15% of the market and much less than 25%. All in all I try to maintain a mid point. I dont want to be way over the top and certainly dont want to work less that the majority of the market.

    Its a difficult one to set as different places in Ireland have different market expctations.

    Reprint Price List

    5″x4″ Wallet Portraits ?12.50
    7″x5″ Post Card Portraits ?23.00
    8″x6″ Mini-Desk Portraits ?28.00
    10″x8″ Desk Portraits ?35.00
    12″x10″ Large Desk Portraits (Card Mounted) ?60.00
    12″x10″ Large Desk Portrait (Hard Mounted & Heat Sealed) ?85.00
    12″x10″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?95.00
    14″x11″ Wall Portrait (Card Mounted) ?70.00
    14″x11″ Hard Mount & Heat Seal ?90.00
    14″x11″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?135.00
    16″x12″ Wall Portrait (Card Mounted) ?80.00
    16″x12″ Wall Portrait (Hard Mounted & Heat Sealed) ?105.00
    16″x12″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?125.00
    16″x12″ Wall Portrait (Canvas Wrap) ?240.00
    18″x13″ Wall portrait (Card Mounted) ?100.00
    18″x13″ Wall Portrait (Hard Mounted & Heat Sealed) ?145.00
    18″x13″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?170.00
    20″x16″ Wall Portrait (Card Mounted) ?150.00
    20″x16″ Wall Portrait (Hard Mounted & Heat Sealed) ?175.00
    20″x16″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?230.00
    20″x16″ Wall Portrait (Canvas Wrap) ?275.00
    24″x20″ Wall Portrait (Card Mounted) ?200.00
    24″x20″ Wall Portrait (Hard Mounted & Heat Sealed) ?230.00
    24″x20″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?265.00
    24″x20″ Wall Portrait (Canvas Wrap) ?470.00
    30″x20″ Wall Portrait (Card Mounted) ?220.00
    30″x20″ Wall Portrait (Hard Mounted & Heat Sealed) ?285.00
    30″x20″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?325.00
    30″x24″ Wall Portrait (Card Mounted) ?275.00
    30″x24″ Wall Hanging Portrait, Studio Framed ?355.00
    30″x24″ Wall Portrait (Canvas Wrap) ?425.00
    40″x30″ Wall Portrait (Canvas Wrap) ?610.00

    (The above prices are retail and include VAT at 13.5% ………. Framed prints above also rate at 13.5%)

    Ashley
    Participant
    Mikeanywhere
    Participant

    Thanks for that Ashley,

    It wasnt quite so cut and dry as you mention above but appreciate the feedback anyway due to the circumstances of the deal. The whole sitaution was sorted in the end!!

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