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When it comes to Pictures are we too critical?
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Last night I browsed my Girlfriends Hollands Diep (Dutch) magazine
and inside the first couple of pages was an add for KLM airline.I started closely inspecting the picture and applied my CRITIQUE
skills learned here on PI to it.A number of minutes later I took a step back and thought
“what the feck are you doing, this picture which is noticably out of focus
in the foreground is an add for a major international airline, it
does’nt matter”Are we too critical? does the general public notice these minor
Glitches, mistakes, shortcomings or whatever?Have you noticed high end photos with ERRORS?
I have a photograph of river I took a few years ago as my wall paper on my laptop, a few work colleges saw it the other day and thought it was excellent, slow moving water and so on. I said it was OK except for the blown sky, with very confused looks on their faces they asked me what I was talking about.
Dave.
[quote=”
A number of minutes later I took a step back and thought
“what the feck are you doing, this picture which is noticably out of focus
in the foreground is an add for a major international airline, it
does’nt matter”Well done Aoluain! I’m delighted to see someone at last who has matured enough to realise that an image is an image and whether some aspects are soft, blurry, slightly askew that it really doesn’t matter as long as the look and feel of the photo adequately expresses what the client demanded (if it is a commercial image) or what the original artist was trying to say (if it is a personal project).
Are we too critical? does the general public notice these minor
Glitches, mistakes, shortcomings or whatever?While taking into account that beginners in particular can benefit from some basic hints and suggestions on composition- yes, I believe that more often than not much of the critique offered on PI (while given in the best possible spirit) is often too one dimensional …crop a bit more of the top here…or enhance the red of the flowers there, etc. Occasionally someone does comment on whether the image works in terms of the FEEL of the overall image, but that is all too rare.
Have you noticed high end photos with ERRORS?
If you look at the work of Avedon, Borges, Leibowitz and many others I’m sure practically every image they ever made could no doubt have been ‘enhanced’ by critique from forums such as ours…but I would argue that it is very often the rawness of their images that makes them great.
One thing is for certain. It seems that photographers (mostly amatuer) are the only ones who seem to engage in nit-picking of each others images. Does it happen that way in the wider art world? If it did then Van Gogh would probably have never shown this
….should have cropped out that flower on the lower left and intensified the colour of the table, what do you think?.
I think it’s a bit of a legacy from the starchy old club-fart days when any image that didn’t obey a strict and rigid set of (mainly technical) rules was declared ‘arty farty’ and pilloried for not achieving a set standard.
Phew…minor rant over. Good post though Aoluain.
[/quote]Mike Johnston of “The Online Photographer” did a send up on his blog a few years ago on a typical over enthusiastic photographic forum critique on some of the most famous photographs in the history of photography, it was very funny and as far as I know was the most viewed feature ever on TOP.
aoluain wrote:
Are we too critical? does the general public notice these minor
Glitches, mistakes, shortcomings or whatever?Yes. But it is the same for nearly all enthusiast hobbies.
If you get a bit of passion for a topic then you tend to over analyse everything within that sphere. As an example I have recently weaned myself off an AV addiction (worse than Photography for cost :shock: ), and at the time I found myself over analysing the image on the TV/DVD, looking for deeper blacks, ghosting, purple fringing etc. rather than just watching the show. Like you with Photography, I have since realised that it doesn’t really matter and it is the end result that counts – not the analysis of each individual element.BUT in saying that I don’t think that PI is like this. In fact I would say that it is the opposite. We tend to hold back on critique and just offer general ‘Excellent’ statements (and I am as guilty as anyone of this). I personally like it when someone over analyses a post of mine – I can either chose to ignore or accept it… but surely that is the reason for the post in the first place?
You should say what you think… and no more. When I say “no more” what I mean is don’t force something out for the sake of saying something.
If a dust spot bothers you… then say it.
If a crooked horizon bothers you… then say it.
If you don’t like blown highlights… then say it.
If a photograph makes you smile, and you don’t know why… then say it.
If you think something is “awesome” or “excellent” because your heart and your mind tell you so, but don’t tell you enough to be able to construct an accurate reason why… then don’t worry about… just say what you think.
I’m tired of hearing people saying that critique “should be this and it should be that”.
It should be what you think and feel… it doesn’t necessarily require complicated or over elaborate explanations for everything.
J
When I joined this site, there was a fierce emphasis on technical perfection.
The atmosphere was intimidating at times, soulless often, and very sterile.
Today I think the site thrives on a combination of honest critique and helpful criticism. It’s better than it has ever been, and it just keeps getting better.
Are we too critical on here? I don’t think so.
I see people offering perspective on many genres and many styles, when before the avant was regarded as inferior (and that is just my observation..so now you all know what I really think
:oops: )It’s helped to have a range of talents and abilities as the site has grown. Not everyone will like all styles, and that’s never going to change. It’s good to hear what works and doesn’t and why. I welcome all critique. The negative helps me more than the positive, but I am a person who is not easily embarrassed.
Honestly, I am always surprised that some people post expecting only good critique. If you know it is good, I think it’s a good idea to build a website and display your best. I usually assume if someone posts here, they are looking for an honest evaluation. After all, these are critique forums, not showcases.
Anyway, got carried away there. This is the best site I have ever seen for learning and improving and having a laugh all at once. Thank you Mark~
Seaview wrote:
I have a photograph of river I took a few years ago as my wall paper on my laptop, a few work colleges saw it the other day and thought it was excellent, slow moving water and so on. I said it was OK except for the blown sky, with very confused looks on their faces they asked me what I was talking about.
Dave.
I can relate to that. At the moment I have a shot that I took last week at Portumna as my wallpaper. Everybody that sees it tells me how fantastic it is, but I keep looking at the flare and think of what might have been.
I guess to progress we need to be critical of both our own and other people’s work, but it is important to see what is good in an image as well as what could be improved.
As for my own work, sometimes I feel like the dog that is always chasing cars. It wouldn’t know what to do with one if it caught it but sure has great fun trying. I don’t particularly mind what people think of my images (except like everyone I like to be praised) as long as I like them and had fun in the capture. It does help, though, when somone can point out to you what could be done better, especially whne you can’t put your finger on it yourself but know there is something not quite right.
aoluain wrote:
Last night I browsed my Girlfriends Hollands Diep (Dutch) magazine
and inside the first couple of pages was an add for KLM airline.I started closely inspecting the picture and applied my CRITIQUE
skills learned here on PI to it.A number of minutes later I took a step back and thought
“what the feck are you doing, this picture which is noticably out of focus
in the foreground is an add for a major international airline, it
does’nt matter”Are we too critical? does the general public notice these minor
Glitches, mistakes, shortcomings or whatever?Have you noticed high end photos with ERRORS?
Sometimes we (enthusiast photographers) go over the line
Photographers are the most critical you will find.Non enthusiast photographers will simply look at a photograph and ask themselves what does this image say to them?
While enthusiast photographers will ask the same question they will also check horizon, where the crop is- too much too tight, sharpness, point of focus, distracting shadows, exposure, colour balance, compliance with compostion guidelines, perspective, dead space and god knows what else.
Frequently I see great photography in magazines and newpapers or from professionals. Frequently also I see photography that is not quite on the money but, hey, nobody seems to mind very much – except other photographers perhaps
Generally though the pros seem to get as a minimum acceptable result. Amateurs have the time to go back again and again until we get it right! :) :)
No matter who takes the pic, me, maybe Nfl, or Dave noton. Every one will have a different thing to say, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
On a big forum like this with so many good photographers, there are so many different opinions. Its bound to happen.
We are to critical i think.
I bet if i put an image up from david noton, there would be no bad comments about it, if i took the same pic there would be loads, probably negative.
I think its to do with who has taken the picture.
Sean.
Another aspect of this is the person who takes a photo which they like and post it inviting C&C and a few days see that 20/30 people have viewed the photo and not one saw fit to pass a comment on it good bad or indiffernt this IMO the worst criticism of all.
If I post a picture for critique, it’s usually not one of my pictures that I love for the spontaneity or feel of that sort of thing… I am just looking for an answer for a technical issue (problems with colour correction or lighting, etc.). The more critique and bashing I get, the better.
You need skills to express yourself, whatever medium you choose to create art. If you were drawing, painting, dancing or whatever, you’d still have to learn composition, moves, etc. You don’t have to obey the rules, but it doesn’t hurt knowing about them.
There are many examples here on PI for technically imperfect photos getting good feedback, so I wouldn’t be worried about the nit-picking nature of this community too much. There are examples for the direct opposite as well, of course, but this is not an art forum primarily, so I’m not surprised. On the other hand, when I tried posting some of my photos on art forums, I’ve got much worse comments, criticizing my perception of art as a whole… Neither is better.
As for the original question: I have done only a few shoots that were not to serve my passion, but to be used for publicity, and I realized after a while that I started to care less and spend less time on perfecting the shots that were not interesting for my own portfolio. I am not a professional, but if I was, I sure would only spend as much time on taking and editing the photos as required to meet the clients needs. I am not saying, that I would be happy with an out of focus shot, but the client might like that one, pays for it, and in that case I would put my name under it, too.
When a picture is taken to serve a purpose, it should be at least in focus though… the public is fed up with images, so they don’t care I guess.
Some great feedback from all,and good positive stuff
too. I think its right to say that it is no harm learning the rules
but you dont have to stick to them.Everyone will have a different slant on a given image so whats the saying again . . .
“its hard to please all of the people all of the time . . .”
On reflection of my lead in post and the comments following,
I have learned a great deal since I joined PI, not from my image posts, but
from reading other peoples received feedback.The nit-picking has a place here too I guess, it highlights the very minor disturbances,
imperfections or distractions in an image which would probably go unnoticed by the
artist/photographer in the grand view of the image, would the average Joe Soap notice them?Probably not.
I think at times that the essence of what makes a good photo can be lost by over analysing it.
I have seem some visually amazing shots on this forum that have been very harshly critiqued on
a technical level. I don’t think there is any harm in pointing out a technical flaw in a shot.
I think that where it becomes a problem is where people cannot see the overall shot, they can only focus
on it’s flaws.I have shot that I took in Indonesia hung at home ( posted here somewhere as well ). When non-photography people
look at it they see a lovely shot of two adorable kids. That’s it.
When photography people look at it they see that i cut the toes of one of the kids and there are one are two blown spots.It’s all relative really. To me that shot is fine. I can see the flaws but i still love the shot because of where and when I took it. Some people may bin it because of the flaws and loose a perfectly printable shot.
GrahamB wrote:
It’s all relative really. To me that shot is fine. I can see the flaws but i still love the shot because of where and when I took it. Some people may bin it because of the flaws and loose a perfectly printable shot.
I agree totally GrahamB
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