brightredshoes
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brightredshoesParticipantSounds to me like you’ve already agreed to include the image in the storybook and if you change your mind now, you risk pissing her off.
Maybe you could add a spread to the album of ‘guests’ photos and style the presentation so they look like snapshots or something (like with a white border around like the ones you used to get from the chemist…)
– Tom
brightredshoesParticipantHI Generic Handle,
Miki’s right the main point of a flash bracket is to get the flash off the same plane as the shutter and avoid red eye. You’re Metz should have a tilt head and reflector card which should make it possible to bounce the light where you need it. I wouldn’t recomend a softbox if your shooting weddings. Most of the time, you will need to be as unobtrusive as possible so that the whole event doesnt seem like a massive photo shoot. Fast lens and high ISO when you need it should do the trick without having to change your style of shooting (which presumably is the reason you got the job in the first place) or too much ‘faffing around’, particularly if you’re style is more documentary -style, shots. Also if you’re relying on using the flash indoors, you will quickly run into a situation where you’re not permitted to use flash inside a church.
Dont get me wrong I’m not an available light snob n the least. As far as I’m concerned if its fully charged and in my bag, then its available, but the less you have to juggle with ISO, white balance and exposure settings on the day, the easier the job will be. (Although I wold hesitate from assuming that any wedding is easy to shoot!) When it comes to winter weddings, you’re going to need a flash at some point no matter how fast your lens is or how mobile your bride and groom are. If the best way of working with it for you is on a flash bracket go for it. If you’re worried about it being too harsh, stick a diffuser on it.
On the medium format issue, you should consider the cost factor of film and processing and scanning your images into your workflow too and the differences in style and look between digital and analog / chemical prints. At the end of the day you’re more than likely going to be producing or providing an album and you might need to consider if you want the look and feel of the images to vary from daylight lit documentary style to flash enhanced and formal shots as well as Flim based shots somewhere in the middle of the mix and what effect that might have on the album overall. More than likely if you’re including medium format film as a medium in your workflow, your costs to shoot and produce and album are going to be higher than most prfessional wedding pros, which is fine as long as you dont have to worry about making any money from the wedding. Remember the bride and groom’s friends will have their snaps up on face book by the time you’ve unloaded the film and that is ultimately what you’re competing against these days.
– Tom
brightredshoesParticipantI moo too.
There are cheaper options, particularly if you want to go for a large print run but what I like to do is constantly change the images on the back of mine on a regular basis so that I can give a handfull to customers when I’m handng over product or print with their own pictures on the back, so they are more likely to carry them around and show them off to others. So adding a short-run moo card order has become part of my workflow.
– T
brightredshoesParticipantHi edwin,
there are a number of hosting companies that provide full website hosting, design and mangement services aimed particularly at photographers.
If you can build our own site and are reasonable competant in HTML etc, you can get buy your own domain and hosting package quite cheaply, just google ‘cheap hosting’ and you can spend days loooing around.
There are hosting companies that specialise in providing professional websites for photographers, probably the biggest name in the UK is ‘amazing internet’ and they advertise quite heavily in the pro photo mags.
I’m currently hosting my own website as I’ve had my own domain for a few years back and I can code the thing myself if I have to, but as the workload is increasing on my post production sales and printing etc, its actually working out more benificial for me to switch to a service provider for this. Also I’m not currently set up to sell work from the site, so going with someone else for this makes more sense for me at this stage.
I’m currently rebuilding my webiste with Showit, as I’mally impressed with what they can do, especially with their integratin with facebook and twitter, which is where I’m getting most attention these days. They also have very effective Search Engnie Optimazation with Google. And on the plus sde, as long as you limit your site to 5 pages, you can host your site with them for free. (with some limitations) One word of caution though, the Showit software is very US based, and I had to work a bit of magic myself to get it to display the euro symbol (€). I’m also going to be using a wordpress blog off my own domain integrated with my showit site, and I’ll probably use photoshelter for the e-commerce stuff for now.
– T
brightredshoesParticipantCan you accept pay pal for payment? Already blown my cash this month on a printer…
brightredshoesParticipantOn a related topic, has anyone gotten to grips yet with the possible implications on ‘traditional’ bridal / wedding posing styles and intreratations? I have my set of rules that I try to be aware of (and deliberately break sometimes) about which side the ride goes on and who should be in front etc, just wondering if anyone has seen any work or guidence on a similar aproach to same sex ceremonies?
brightredshoesParticipantbrightredshoesParticipantbrightredshoesParticipantdaimend:
As long as my customers are prepared to pay for proof books, I’m quite happy to print them off (or pay someone else to print and bind htem for me). Realictically, i’m aiming at album sales with anywhere between 40 – images chosen from sometimes ten times that many shot. Apart fom the cost of printing out images that will ultimatelt end up in the bin, I’d need a truck to lugg aruond that many prints at a decent enough size to show the quality. with a projector, I can even set it up so that we are projecting right onto the wall that the final framed photo will be hung on at the actual size. Bigger images, means better quality results, no matter what app your using on yor ipad, they arent going to get any bigger in size.
– T
brightredshoesParticipantHard to say exactly cause each kid is different, and thats kinda the point. At those age groups, I’d prefer to shoot them in their home or out and about in favourite park or playground if possible. But there’s a few tactics I’ve tried and used successfully in the past….
Ignore the kid, talk to the parents, dont try to get him to do anything, just try and focus with the parents on having fun. Children hate being isolated and excluded from anything fun, so you might find that if he’s left to his own devices while mum and dad and baby sister seem to be having a great time, in no time at all he’ll want to join in. (Its a bit like angry dogs in a way, dont make eye contact at all until he comes to you). My preferred tactic is to leave the camera in the bag until they’ve come round.
Of course if he’s trying to climb up the lightstand and get inside the softox that might not be such a great option.
Magic. This works best for kids who are camera shy rather than just plain difficult. I sometimes show the kid a ‘magic’ box or piece of gaffer tape or something, telling them there’s something magic like, ‘I bet you cant stand on that piece of tape without falling over. The minute you try this, you’re establishing a game with them thats got nothing to do with the photo session, and most kids are more than willing to jump straight into imaginary worlds, especially if its a challange.
Five can be a tricky age. I’d look closely at how the parents are interacting withi him, and make sure to have a word in private with them in advance so they know what to expect. I always tell parents, NEVER to tell the kids to smile and leave the direction up to me. If a parent is particulary interfering, I give them a job to do like holding a reflector or something to get them out from behind the lens and out of the way. Most kids will take their que from their parents if the kid isnt responding as I would expect I always turn and take a close look at mummy and daddy, usually, they are the real cause of the problem. If I start to focus my attention on them, I can usually notice that maybe one of them is as pissed off as the kid is, and I work on them, (Maybe daddy really doesnt want to be here either, or mummy is teribly self conscous of how shes’ going to look in a photo, whatever the reason, I try to put the camera down and deal with that first) then I use the exact same approach on the kid.
Lastly, with boys expecially, the old chimping screen at the back of the camera can work wonders, and promising to let them have a go at taking a few photos themselves, ‘but lets do this first’…
Sometimes, “now whatever you do dont smile” can bring out a cheeky grin, there is nothing funnier than surpressed laughter.
Make sure you talk to the parents and let them know you know what you are doing and your not just panicing and trying anything to get it over with.Failing that, If it really wasnt working, I’d cancel the shoot and try to rearrange another time. I’d rather the parents know that I’m willing to work around them to get what they want then settle for a less than perfect experience. Last thing I want is for the parents to walk away from a shoot thnking ‘well I’m never doing that again!’
– Tom
– Tom
brightredshoesParticipantBare in mind that if your website utilizes FLASH for slideshows or galleries, you wont be able to show people your site on it. I’m developing my website in HTML / CSS to work around the FLASH limitation but most of the high end photo hosting sites use FLASH.
I’d love to have one myself, but would prefer to show my images through a projector at a larger size and work with lightroom on the fly, marking up and making selections.
That said if someone can develop an album making application that allows me to drag and drop the images into the album in front of the customers, and make changes on the fly without having to send them proofs I’d definately reconsider.
I do want one though…
– Tom
brightredshoesParticipantMaybe even get back in touch with the driver and say you’d love to help him out with pics of his car for his advertising purposes.
Might be worth doing an ad-hoc shoot for him for free and giving him a stack of your business cards. Next time someone asks him if hes available for a wedding, he can respond with ‘and do you have a photogrpaher yet?’.
Who knows, this could be the start of a beautiful friendship…– Tom
brightredshoesParticipantHow about rying to price it based on your time rather than the number of shots?
If there’s two day’s shooting, how much should you be charging for a day’s work?As a rough rule of thumb, photogrpahy business should be working to a mark up of 65%. (UK average) So lets say you have to take two days off work to do the shoot, the cost to you is whatever you typically get paid for two days work, plus 65% if thats what you want your mark up to be. (assuming you want to make the same amount of money from your photogrpahy as your day job)
Dont forget that even with minimal processing, two days shoot will take time to download, post process (however minimal) back up, store etc and thus you should be pricing for this work as well. (what if your client comes back to you in 6 months time looking for the same images again, you need to have these to hand, so what is it costing to have these sitting in your hrd drive, or multiple hard drives, or at your off site back up etc)
Lets say you can download and back up all your images in half the time it takes to shoot them, and then re upload them to your client’s FTP or burn them to DVD or whatever, your easily looking at the gutts of another days work at least).
So thats 3 days work, to start with, (plus your mark up)
Also, if your thinking about this logicaly, all your equipment is costing yuou money by minute, even if its bought and paid for. Typically you are allowed spread the cost of new equipment over 5 years for tax purposes, so if you bought your camera for £2000 within the last 5 years, technically its costing you £1 a day, (plus mark up etc).
+rental of studio
+travel
+lighting and electricity
+insureance (You are insured arent you?)I know you may not have all these overheads at present, but if you figure out what your costs are likely to be if it was your only source of income, you at least have an idea of what you should be charging if your photography was to be your only source of income, you can at least get an idea of the VALUE of your work, and discount accordingly.
When you start to look at your work like this, its easy to see why sometimes it makes more sense to outsource post processing, or printing or another part of your worflow that you can get done for cheaper than you would need to be charging for your own time. Its also easier to see what you should be charging if you ever want this to be a full time thing.
– Tom
brightredshoesParticipantHmmm,
Here’s the question I ask myself about this…
My bet is that despite the price, she wont get any business from a free add on gumtree, no website etc etc. Im my (limeted) experience, people pick their wedding photographer based on their portfolio, reputation, word of mouth, and especially how much they LIKE the tog himself/herself.
If I was getting married, would I pick up the phone to ring this photogrpaher when myself and my lucky bride to be are looking around for a photographer? I have to say its unlikely.
As far as the ‘what is the right price level’ sub thread that this has spawned, I like to think that when people are hiring me to take photos, its me and my products that they are buying into. If they are comparing me and my prices to the guy down the road, I’ve already lost their business. I would not want anyone to hire me based on the fact that I’m a cheaper option.
The fact that there are working photogrpahers out there who are able to charge multiple thousands means it can be done. True there would be a problem for us if the end product from the cheaper end was the same as the expensive end. If you want to charge more for a wedding shoot, then you need to have a brand and product that is worth more than the keen amateur.
Lastly, it could be that the lady in question is a talented photographer who is capable of producing a brillinat set of images, and that shes only really interested in doing it for the joy of her ‘art’. More than likely though, even if this is the case she simply doesnt have the confidence and faith in her own service to think that she can charge more. Maybe rather than be critical of her pricing, we could be more supportive of her art.
– T
brightredshoesParticipantI’d seriously recommend the courses at Annabelle williams studio in Cumbria, (lake district). Bit of a chore to get to but well worth the trip.
They have a 4 day courses on the whole wedding business and a couple of smaller ones to beef up your portfolio and get and introduction. You will also come away with a whole new set of friends and a network of other photographers and a completely different view of your work and what its worth. This is the place to go to if what you are aiming for is making more money from the wedding business.BTW Damien Lovegrove is a graduate of her bespoke program.
There’s also ‘third eye’ photo training in london, who are a bit cheaper and easier to get to.
Lastly, im not in the wedding business yet myself, but I have a source who can get me a shed load of old dresses and I’m hoping to arrange a munch / meet up of togs, models, and make up artists like the Stobist group meet ups, over the next few months so we can all get some new shots for our websites & portfolios etc, Keep your eyes posted.
– Tom
